I would personally like historians/philosophers/theoreticians and others with different views & approaches to be right in the middle of these conversations, even if only to say "leave us out of all this, we want no part of it". But I think there are more productive approaches /4
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I thought the point was to respect experts and modellers are experts not just on modelling itself but also how they and their work is treated by wider psych/cogsci/neurosci.
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Thanks for clarifying. I think we completely agree. Modeling expertise is a form of theorising and experts in modeling need to be part of any reform we might be undergoing. Mine is an argument for diversity in any reform process and I agree the city metaphor is inappropriate.
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One of my special skills is coming up with ideas that everyone hates. It’s harder than you might think.
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.....but you didn't seem super committed to the metaphor.
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If you learn anything in philosophy it's that metaphors can be distracting.
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I can't hate it that much because if you, Chris, hadn't used it I would not have realised how we see the world differently in this case.

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It's possible that b/c so much time working to change existing systems from the inside, with all their imperfections & rules, policies & so forth, that my views are a bit restricted - and so I usually tend to see things through a "systems lens", if that makes sense.
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But this discusison has been helpful for me in seeing what might lie beyond that.
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