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o_guest's profile
Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ
Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ
Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ
@o_guest

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Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ

@o_guest

• goth gremlin • computational cognitive/neuroscience modeling • geek & techish Cypriot • plant aficionada • came up with #bropenscience • http://neuroplausible.com  •

Τότεναμ, Λονδίνο & Cyprus
olivia.science
Joined October 2015

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    1. Fiona Fidler‏ @fidlerfm Mar 14
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @IrisVanRooij @JCSkewesDK and

      I’m sure there’s more here that we agree about than not. Just trying to clear up that I never said ‘make rules’.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    2. Iris van Rooij‏ @IrisVanRooij Mar 14
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @fidlerfm @JCSkewesDK and

      Ah yes, sorry for confusion Fiona. Was not meaning to suggest you did. I was merely making this comment in larger context with in my mind the discussion about prereg and tendencies to promote reform based on templates (as Chris and others seem in favour of).

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    3. Iris van Rooij‏ @IrisVanRooij Mar 14
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @IrisVanRooij @fidlerfm and

      I am trying to explain why indeed abduction proper, and thereby theoretical advancement, do not benefit from a push on prereg but rather are harmed by it (over and above arguments raised in several parallel threads already).

      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
    4. Iris van Rooij‏ @IrisVanRooij Mar 14
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @IrisVanRooij @fidlerfm and

      Can replace ‘rules’ by ‘procedures’ in my argument by the way. (I am coming at this discussion from a computability theory perspective, so some words may have different connotation than I intend).

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    5. Chris Chambers‏Verified account @chrisdc77 Mar 15
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @IrisVanRooij @fidlerfm and

      Perhaps a unifying way fwd would be for us to work together on rules/procedures/templates where they are needed/useful (eg H-D, prereg/RRs where relevant, open data/code, etc) while explicitly exempting them from areas where they are either irrelevant or harmful (eg theory dev)

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    6. Chris Chambers‏Verified account @chrisdc77 Mar 15
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @chrisdc77 @IrisVanRooij and

      What this might require is explicit protection and elevation of the exempted areas to prevent them being absorbed by default, eg by setting up new article types or funding models, edu programmes, etc while also thinking about expectations for work that crosses the boundary

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    7. Chris Chambers‏Verified account @chrisdc77 Mar 15
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @chrisdc77 @IrisVanRooij and

      So perhaps the way to think about all this is to imagine research culture as a city. A city needs traffic lights & rules & police etc to keep traffic moving and keep people safe, but it also needs free open spaces and gardens. The reform movement allows us to redesign the city.

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    8. Joshua Skewes‏ @JCSkewesDK Mar 15
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @chrisdc77 @IrisVanRooij and

      I love the sentiment! - though the metaphor is a tad too restrictive for my own taste. But Ivan made the point during his talk that this might be unavoidable due to the sheer number of scientists. So pragmatically you may be on the right track.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    9. Joshua Skewes‏ @JCSkewesDK Mar 15
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @JCSkewesDK @chrisdc77 and

      Maybe we should write that paper....

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Joshua Skewes‏ @JCSkewesDK Mar 15
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @JCSkewesDK @chrisdc77 and

      …. and thanks for engaging with all this Chris

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest Mar 15
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @JCSkewesDK @chrisdc77 and

      Isn't the idea that science needs to be policed over and above IRBs a little too authoritarian?

      1:40 AM - 15 Mar 2019
      • 7 Likes
      • Abeba Birhane Berna D. Giosuè Baggio Brad Wyble Esther Mondragón Joshua Skewes Iris van Rooij
      2 replies 0 retweets 7 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Joshua Skewes‏ @JCSkewesDK Mar 15
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @o_guest @chrisdc77 and

          Yes the metaphor is problematic. But what I was alluding to is that Ivan made a great historical point about how proceduralisation comes with the growth in science, as an effect of managing the sheer number of papers that come out.....

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. Joshua Skewes‏ @JCSkewesDK Mar 15
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @JCSkewesDK @o_guest and

          And that because of this, and because we forget the process that leads to the development of a procedure, things become bureaucratized whether we like it or not. So we need to be careful about how our procedures and labels regulate. Because they will regulate, in spite of us.

          1 reply 1 retweet 6 likes
        4. Iris van Rooij‏ @IrisVanRooij Mar 15
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @JCSkewesDK @o_guest and

          Thanks for clarifying Joshua. I realize it's a realistic stance. Given reality, imho it's extra important to push back against tendencies to proceduralize science. I'm concerned that vital values & principles of fundamental & applied science won't be safeguarded by bureaucrats.

          1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
        5. Iris van Rooij‏ @IrisVanRooij Mar 15
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @IrisVanRooij @JCSkewesDK and

          Iris van Rooij Retweeted Iris van Rooij

          Pasting this here for others following the thread (discussion continues on the other parallel thread):https://twitter.com/IrisVanRooij/status/1106481180168372224 …

          Iris van Rooij added,

          Iris van Rooij @IrisVanRooij
          Replying to @o_guest @JCSkewesDK and 3 others
          Fwiw I don't think a majority unskilled in theoretical research should have the largest weight in designing "gardens" where theoretical research is "allowed" to take place guided by its own principles and insights (=/= rules, because rules suffocate theoretical research).
          1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
        6. Joshua Skewes‏ @JCSkewesDK Mar 15
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @IrisVanRooij @o_guest and

          The frightening that I think Ivan showed is that bureaucratization happens as part of the reform process. I think he's right and historically you see this in all reform processes. Take the French Revolution! We need to keep working to make ensure procedures don't reify too much..

          1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
        7. Joshua Skewes‏ @JCSkewesDK Mar 15
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @JCSkewesDK @IrisVanRooij and

          ...and more importantly we need to train students to continue this work. And theorists need to be allowed in and to be involved in the reform process. Looking forward to posting Ivan's talk soon.

          1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
        8. Iris van Rooij‏ @IrisVanRooij Mar 15
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @JCSkewesDK @o_guest and

          I am very much looking forward to watching it! (cc @ivanflis)

          2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        9. Chris Chambers‏Verified account @chrisdc77 Mar 15
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @IrisVanRooij @JCSkewesDK and

          I agree my analogy wasn't quite right. I have to dial out soon and do some (much less interesting) work, but what I was getting it as that I think we need to find a way to make the reforms that are happening to the experimental sciences coexist alongside theoretical work... /1

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        10. 26 more replies
        1. New conversation
        2. Iris van Rooij‏ @IrisVanRooij Mar 15
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @o_guest @JCSkewesDK and

          Fwiw I don't think a majority unskilled in theoretical research should have the largest weight in designing "gardens" where theoretical research is "allowed" to take place guided by its own principles and insights (=/= rules, because rules suffocate theoretical research).

          2 replies 1 retweet 10 likes
        3. Iris van Rooij‏ @IrisVanRooij Mar 15
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @IrisVanRooij @o_guest and

          To be honest, to me it reads like giving theoretical research "freedom" behind fences. Seems the wrong way around. I hope we can let go of the idea of wanting to police and package science in templates, at all. As I noted, it severely limits our abductive abilities.

          1 reply 0 retweets 8 likes
        4. Joshua Skewes‏ @JCSkewesDK Mar 15
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @IrisVanRooij @o_guest and

          Joshua Skewes Retweeted Joshua Skewes

          Completely agree in not curbing freedoms. I'm finding thinking about this historically to be very enlightening tho. Problem is that freedoms also get curbed when practice solidifies into routine. Police metaphor is bad, but design thinking might not be.https://twitter.com/JCSkewesDK/status/1106481690904592385 …

          Joshua Skewes added,

          Joshua Skewes @JCSkewesDK
          Replying to @o_guest @chrisdc77 and 3 others
          Yes the metaphor is problematic. But what I was alluding to is that Ivan made a great historical point about how proceduralisation comes with the growth in science, as an effect of managing the sheer number of papers that come out.....
          1 reply 1 retweet 5 likes
        5. Esther Mondragón‏ @twitemp1 Mar 15
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @JCSkewesDK @IrisVanRooij and

          I do agree that routine practices taint freedom, however, building walls to contain knowledge is never a good idea. For the same reason that habit or routine deteriorates research, establishing rigid boundaries is likely to result in inbreeding of ideas.

          1 reply 1 retweet 6 likes
        6. Esther Mondragón‏ @twitemp1 Mar 15
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @twitemp1 @JCSkewesDK and

          Closed scientific cultures are stuck reinventing the wheel and rarely produce real innovation.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        7. Joshua Skewes‏ @JCSkewesDK Mar 15
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @twitemp1 @IrisVanRooij and

          I worry that history teaches that rigid boundaries - or even just institutions - grow on their own. The positive side is that historians can help pull them down. I'd argue for getting involved in critical design of institutions, while teaching students to be skeptical of them.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        8. Joshua Skewes‏ @JCSkewesDK Mar 15
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @JCSkewesDK @twitemp1 and

          For example - I loved and still value my BPsych. What I don't love was the RIGID focus on APA guidelines. As in, we'd lose grades if our references weren't perfect APA style.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        9. Joshua Skewes‏ @JCSkewesDK Mar 15
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @JCSkewesDK @twitemp1 and

          And now I use a registered report format in my students BSc theses. But we also discuss what the downsides of the format might be. And I emphasise why it is appropriate for their particular project.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        10. 6 more replies

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