Yep, their reaction was indeed "you're ruining our fun". But for the record, I wasn't even trying to bring up their combative discussions. I was trying to get them to stop encouraging sexual harassment!
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Oh, JFC, that was just completely inexcusable of them then!!! They should have listened to you either way, but "we're having fun fighting each other" is a far, far more acceptable infringement of professional conduct than, "we're having fun encouraging sexual harassment"!
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Replying to @tyrell_turing @tsonj and
Why is it exclusionary communities like these end up being all like this? If you only have "white dudes", you end up doing "locker room talk" apparently.
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As someone who spent many formative years in hockey locker rooms, it's easy to explain: all humans (not just white dudes) enjoy signalling group membership and status. But, for white dudes engaged in a high aggression activity, group status is signalled by being hard, mean, etc.
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Replying to @tyrell_turing @tsonj and
As someone who spent many formative years being an immigrant, I can assure you women do not descend into sexual language about men (anybody) anywhere near as often (i.e., basically never) as men seem to based on what men tell me.
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Oh, I'm sure not. But, based on what my wife and female friends have told me, women have other ways of signalling group membership and status. It's just that in traditional, patriarchal male culture, status is founded on being hard and mean to "lower status" ppl, including women.
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Replying to @tyrell_turing @o_guest and
I realize you're not defending this culture, but is there more that we can do to attack it. It's a massive problem, and it can't just be up to women to solve it.
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Replying to @tom_hartley @o_guest and
Oh, I'm 100% not defending it!!!! And it's not up to women at all! It's up to us men. It requires us giving each other *less* status when one of us get aggressive and mean.
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Replying to @tyrell_turing @o_guest and
Because of the way status works in male groups (it seems to me), that means each man has to say less, listen more, and leave more space for others. With that in mind - I need to stop interjecting!
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Replying to @tom_hartley @tyrell_turing and
I'm reluctant to say this in my position but I hope it'll be taken as constructive: I disagree that men should simply say less. Also on the role of 'might is right' It's all maladaptive in their lack of nuance Show might if you're right. Or the wrong will have all the might.
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Yeah, please punch Nazis, for example.
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Replying to @o_guest @tom_hartley and
Yes but srsly, Ive thought a lot on this issue, in part due to having experienced Dutch Frat culture. Men must speak the language of strength and aggression, if they are to change the issue from within, with more than dismissal and avoidance. I feel this fact is often ignored
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