Once, when I tried to bring up some of the more heinous aspects of their culture, I was literally asked to leave, essentially for not assimilating. Basically 'play by our rules or gtfo'
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Yeah, as you surmised, it *can* be fun if you're comfortable with aggression and willing to muscle your way in. So, I bet the reaction to you was, "we're having fun, back off". But, science needs to be a professional place that is welcoming to all - a culture change is required.
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Replying to @tyrell_turing @o_guest and
Yep, their reaction was indeed "you're ruining our fun". But for the record, I wasn't even trying to bring up their combative discussions. I was trying to get them to stop encouraging sexual harassment!
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Oh, JFC, that was just completely inexcusable of them then!!! They should have listened to you either way, but "we're having fun fighting each other" is a far, far more acceptable infringement of professional conduct than, "we're having fun encouraging sexual harassment"!
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Replying to @tyrell_turing @tsonj and
Why is it exclusionary communities like these end up being all like this? If you only have "white dudes", you end up doing "locker room talk" apparently.
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As someone who spent many formative years in hockey locker rooms, it's easy to explain: all humans (not just white dudes) enjoy signalling group membership and status. But, for white dudes engaged in a high aggression activity, group status is signalled by being hard, mean, etc.
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Replying to @tyrell_turing @tsonj and
As someone who spent many formative years being an immigrant, I can assure you women do not descend into sexual language about men (anybody) anywhere near as often (i.e., basically never) as men seem to based on what men tell me.
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Replying to @o_guest @tyrell_turing and
Same for racism when white people think PoCs are not around.
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Replying to @o_guest @tyrell_turing and
Because I'm an ethnic minority and let me tell you the things I hear when people think the coast is clear about my people and other ethnic groups... WILD. It's so creepy how when they think "oh, phew, we can chat" — the whole vibe of the room changes.
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Replying to @o_guest @tyrell_turing and
My skin is pale enough to grant me white privilege, but oh, fuck, it's also a ticket into a world where my mum is "ugly" and "no, that's not your mum, right?". So yeah, I think these spaces exist and those who have extreme privilege never get to see what's going on by design.
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To deconstruct that exclusionary aspect there are cases where like @tom_hartley said the most privileged have to do the heavy lifting but there are cases where it's not possible for you to. You literally have to stop and let us talk without interruptions as well.
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Replying to @o_guest @tyrell_turing and
Personally, I find this balance very tricky - between speaking out, and shutting up. I'm naturally talkative, so I have to try to identify moments where it is best for me to be quiet, and then consciously shut-up (I don't always succeed).
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Replying to @aidanhorner @tyrell_turing and
You're good IMHO, Aidan. Keep up the solid work.
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End of conversation
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