I'm so confused. Where did Rich say that it's OK to lie or OK to do something akin to lying?
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This is a debate that seems best to have within not across fields. But from outside your field, his statements look to be saying that it's ok to make misleading claims because people know you're making misleading claims; this is a bad message to put out about your field.
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Modelling (whether the math type as math psych people use or the cog type cog modellers like myself use — do not ask for a diff between us, huge discussion) is a different way of doing science and is applicable to many fields.https://twitter.com/o_guest/status/1087405254352822273 …
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I help out at a journal that does replication stuff (100% open science) for modelling (all fields welcome). So it's by no means true modellers don't care about evaluating their work.
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To cast math modellers (like Rich's community), or any modellers, as not caring deeply about these issues would be a wrong assumption. But yeah, it's in part something psychology needs to deal with internally too. I agree with you there.
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I also do work that is difficult to pre-register because I develop new statistical models in almost all of my papers, so I get what you're saying, but I still would not be happy with the idea that such papers can be expected to misstate and mislead as a general rule.
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That is not what I read. So we disagree on the meta-level, which means we technically cannot disagree on the level of "is what he said something we agree with".
End of conversation
New conversation -
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When I say he "lets", I mean he envisages a world where we can co-exist & he thinks that world is fine. Obviously, he's not the God of science. Principle of charity in our exchanges would go a long way to creating an environment for exchange of ideas & help with understanding.
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I agree that if someone I knew to be otherwise sensible had said this quote I would have asked them what they meant - but I still would have been taken aback. (It's also tough to call for charity when you just responded aggressively to me because you felt "a bit of a weirdness")
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Honestly, I get it if you don't like my personality or tone. But it's irrelevant to what I think we're discussing, unless you want to do an open review of my conduct, which obviously you are free to do. Modellers are a tiny minority in psychology, so yeah, I'm gonna "punch up".
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You're not punching up! You're defending a powerful old guy in your field against a random on twitter!
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He doesn't need me to defend him. AT ALL. I am defending myself because his ideas are valuable and helpful to me.
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As are for me and for many other experimental and computational psychologists.
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Yup, and as I said above, we're a tiny minority. In fact, we're often the butt of non-modeller's jokes. I've heard so many divergent negative views of us. Including in side-threads and in general on Twitter where people hint that we're not even in the same field.
End of conversation
New conversation -
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