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o_guest's profile
Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ
Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ
Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ
@o_guest

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Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ

@o_guest

• goth gremlin • computational cognitive/neuroscience modeling • geek & techish Cypriot • plant aficionada • came up with #bropenscience • http://neuroplausible.com  •

Τότεναμ, Λονδίνο & Cyprus
olivia.science
Joined October 2015

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    1. Simon Farrell‏ @psy_farrell Jan 19
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @bradpwyble @o_guest and

      This reflects a continuing obsession with seeking “truth”. In your example we already have two rounds of learning: we learn something when the model misses the data, and also learn from how we have to modify the model to handle those data

      1 reply 1 retweet 7 likes
    2. Iris van Rooij‏ @IrisVanRooij Jan 19
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @psy_farrell @bradpwyble and

      Agreed. It’s about extracting information such that we learn more & more over time. We may aim for truth in the long, but cannot in anyway guarantuee it in the short run. Moreover, enforcing ‘truth’ in the short run IMO limits us to uncovering not more than simple/shallow truths.

      1 reply 0 retweets 8 likes
    3. Brad Wyble‏ @bradpwyble Jan 19
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @IrisVanRooij @psy_farrell and

      Yep, that's it exactly. Moreover, the idea that I could "verify" a complex model by running an experiment or two is incredible. There's no way to tick a box that says the model is right.

      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
    4. Alex Danvers‏ @Alex_Danvers Jan 19
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @bradpwyble @IrisVanRooij and

      But you are supposed to be able to disconfirm aspects of a model with experiment, right? I mean at each round one further possibility is killed off. At some point your reasonably close to “truth”, no?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Alex Danvers‏ @Alex_Danvers Jan 19
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @Alex_Danvers @bradpwyble and

      I guess it just feels odd to me that folks would be frustrated with reviewers for “being obsessed with truth”

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    6. Brad Wyble‏ @bradpwyble Jan 19
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @Alex_Danvers @IrisVanRooij and

      It's fine to pursue truth, just don't expect that you'll be able to reach it in a categorical sense (ever, much less in a single paper). Yes, you can disconfirm parts of a model, but they were asking for validation of the entire thing.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    7. Simon Farrell‏ @psy_farrell Jan 19
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @bradpwyble @Alex_Danvers and

      This. One caveat though is that it can be appropriate to ask for more work if a new assumption seems arbitrary, or if authors are arguing for model X, rather than “model X with this assumption that makes things work but we aren’t sure about yet and will need further testing”

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    8. Brad Wyble‏ @bradpwyble Jan 19
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @psy_farrell @Alex_Danvers and

      Yes, good caveats. Also, don't expect the authors to play out 2+ cycles of develop/test within a single paper. It's creatively inefficient to try to squeeze that much work into a single publication time frame. Ideas need time to settle.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Iris van Rooij‏ @IrisVanRooij Jan 20
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @bradpwyble @psy_farrell and

      In response to your question @Alex_Danvers: Psychologists tend to overestimate how quickly we can converge on even “approximate truth”. There exist mathematical proofs that this is generally impossible, even with perfect knowledge: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1551-6709.2011.01182.x …

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    10. Iris van Rooij‏ @IrisVanRooij Jan 20
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @IrisVanRooij @bradpwyble and

      Iris van Rooij Retweeted Brad Wyble

      A reform that forces psych scientists to achieve the unachievable is creating more problems than it solves, such as kill the necessary creativity of the research process?(as @amyhcriss @VandekerckhoveJ & @bradpwyble also pointed out in parallel threads: https://twitter.com/bradpwyble/status/1086832738689302538?s=21 …)

      Iris van Rooij added,

      Brad Wyble @bradpwyble
      re: pre-registration and model building. This is exactly the issue. Model building is incredibly difficult as it is, to do so according to guidelines you created for yourself before you even saw the data is both pointless, and harmful to the creative process. https://twitter.com/VandekerckhoveJ/status/1086020978189074432 …
      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
      Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest Jan 20
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @IrisVanRooij @bradpwyble and

      Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ Retweeted Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ

      This thread too:https://twitter.com/o_guest/status/1085514960325799936 …

      Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ added,

      Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ @o_guest
      This quote by @richarddmorey really exemplifies why when some scientists say "science is the search for truth" I roll my eyes. 🙄 This is a super simplistic description of science that tends towards confusing people. Truth isn't a scientific concept anyway... https://twitter.com/dstephenlindsay/status/1085455647200690176 …
      3:52 AM - 20 Jan 2019
      • 1 Like
      • Iris van Rooij
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        2. Iris van Rooij‏ @IrisVanRooij Jan 20
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @o_guest @bradpwyble and

          Thanks! I saw that connection and had wanted to cross post my link to @richarddmorey’s commemt but given the lock, I cannot copy my tweets atm. So hi @richarddmorey Perhaps the above exchange is of interest to you too 👆

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
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