The recent debate/dialogue on open review has really show who wants to engage and who doesn't. The same people who want to formalise (correctly IMHO) open data and open methods, seem unable to grasp the need for a system (or systems) for open review.
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Computer science conferences do open review well (at least in theory). The reviews are de-anonymised and public after rebuttals and acceptance. Also
@eLife does it well, where reviews get published with replied at the end of the paper.Show this thread -
Mixing and matching arbitrarily between closed review and open merely serves to bypass checks and consent. This creates a rich and richer scheme, exacerbating the power and privilege of the few.
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Comparing the engagement with the Profs' words, the ECR in this specific case (although I'm sure in other similar ones too) got completely ignored.
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Lessons to be learned here are so many. I hope people are trying to take something useful away here. I'm still grappling with the social dynamics here myself, but it's indubitably wrong to claim chaos is good for ECRs. What's good for us is stability, consent, being heard.
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And since I know what's going to be said: "why are you against open review, Olivia?" Look, literally while this debate is was going on, I did an open review (with consent of authors, in a formal system) of a paper: https://doi.org/10.5256/f1000research.19054.r42058 … Maybe this example helps with nuance?
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What I'm trying to say is that labelling me (anybody, who comes from the open science community and presents criticism/feedback aimed towards dialogue and community discussion) as against open science is rhetoric. It's not based on my actions.
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The points you make in this thread are fantastic & informative. But, re
#bropenscience: in NZ the use of "bro" in this pejorative way feels uncomfortable given that it's a greeting/term of affection that's especially (but not exclusively) associated with the Māori community. -
Oh, I had no idea. Interesting and thank you for the kind words. What would work more for NZ?
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I'm not really sure, unfortunately! I don't think we have a word that's equivalent to what you're meaning (this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bro_(subculture) …, right?) I'm also not sure how much (if at all) this would bother Māori researchers - I'm not Māori - so I'm hesitant to say "Don't do it". >
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Maybe just using the word in such a way that it's clear what behaviour/subculture you're satirising would be enough to avoid unintentional confusion or offence amongst those who use the word in a different way? Idk, I might be overthinking this!
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I'll try to be clear! Good point!

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Just in case you've not seen it, do you think the rest of the thread is making the point enough?
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The rest of the thread is super clear and specific about your (totally legit) points re. the nuances of open peer review. The relevance of the "bro" term might initially have been lost on NZers, but probably fine now that this discussion is included in the thread :)
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Thank you!
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