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o_guest's profile
Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ
Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ
Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ
@o_guest

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Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ

@o_guest

• goth gremlin • computational cognitive/neuroscience modeling • geek & techish Cypriot • plant aficionada • came up with #bropenscience • http://neuroplausible.com  •

Τότεναμ, Λονδίνο & Cyprus
olivia.science
Joined October 2015

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    1. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 24 Nov 2018
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @djnavarro

      The argument seems to be, I'm paraphrasing, "psych people can't deal with complex stuff" which really boils down to "I can't teach them complex stuff". Taken at face value the argument is psych researchers are not clever — reality of course is not aligned really with that view.

      2 replies 2 retweets 8 likes
      Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 24 Nov 2018
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @o_guest @djnavarro

      I should underline that those proposing "psych people just can't code/whatever" are the most opportunistic in their negative take on students & whoever else in the field. They would never accept the same about themselves if stated bluntly: "you couldn't learn to code/do stats".

      7:37 AM - 24 Nov 2018
      • 2 Retweets
      • 12 Likes
      • Lampros Bisdounis Dale Barr Marta. Iris van Rooij Jeffrey K. Bye Paolo Palma itati ‘dont gentrify my hood @ botany2019 pls' VCS 𝘥𝘉/𝘶 Stuart Watt
      3 replies 2 retweets 12 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Richard D. Morey‏ @richarddmorey 24 Nov 2018
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @o_guest @djnavarro

          It has been suggested to me - in the context of curriculum refresh - that psych undergraduate students just don't want to learn coding or stats. I don't think it's an accident that the people saying these things are older men, and the students are mostly women.

          4 replies 1 retweet 38 likes
        3. Tal Yarkoni‏ @talyarkoni 24 Nov 2018
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @richarddmorey @o_guest @djnavarro

          I mean, this is clearly true of *a lot* of psych undergrads (men and women both), and I see no reason to deny it. but the fact that many students don't want to learn statistics is not a reason not to include statistics in the curriculum—and the same should be true for coding.

          4 replies 1 retweet 37 likes
        4. EJ Wagenmakers‏ @EJWagenmakers 25 Nov 2018
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @talyarkoni @richarddmorey and

          Agreed, but I am not sure that combining these in a single course is wise, and I worry about students without coding experience feeling that they start with a handicap (because they do). In their first stats course, I like students to grasp the concepts, not "tapply".

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        5. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 25 Nov 2018
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @EJWagenmakers @talyarkoni and

          Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ Retweeted Dale Barr

          You might want to see what others do further down the thread:https://twitter.com/dalejbarr/status/1066431058764288000 …

          Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ added,

          Dale Barr @dalejbarr
          Replying to @sTeamTraen @Matt_Craddock and 8 others
          We don't really present it to them in terms of learning R. We present it in terms of the skills that are required to manage and make sense of large, complex datasets and to perform reproducible and transparent analyses
          2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        6. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 25 Nov 2018
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @o_guest @EJWagenmakers and

          The thing is all students have a "handicap" in some way or another. I am better than people who just speak Engish at using/naming Greek letters (because I am a native Greek speaking) or knowing prima facie what "prosopagnosia" means etc.

          1 reply 1 retweet 2 likes
        7. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 25 Nov 2018
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @o_guest @EJWagenmakers and

          Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ Retweeted Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ

          That doesn't mean we don't teach students. As I said elsewhere:https://twitter.com/o_guest/status/1066649799875796992 …

          Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ added,

          Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ @o_guest
          Replying to @sharoz @sTeamTraen and 7 others
          When I taught a small class of undergraduates to do neural networks from scratch (no library, just for loops) we didn't do scoping and they coped.
          1 reply 1 retweet 1 like
        8. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 25 Nov 2018
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @o_guest @EJWagenmakers and

          Those undergrads knew no coding (only two had coded before and not in Python). By the end, they knew how to do the tasks required for the module. And they all good really good grades.

          1 reply 1 retweet 1 like
        9. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 25 Nov 2018
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @o_guest @EJWagenmakers and

          Every class introduces "handicaps". I did maths in both English and Greek (literally twice, once in high school and once in private A levels) which really helped when I moved to the UK. I didn't need to relearn all the maths terms in English in computer science.

          1 reply 1 retweet 2 likes
        10. 5 more replies
        1. New conversation
        2. Nicholas Tierney‏ @nj_tierney 24 Nov 2018
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @o_guest @djnavarro

          Yup, this is what I've heard from faculty as well, along with the argument of "if we teach them coding, what will we have to take out???" And "coding is great, but for nerds like us researchers". Cc @lingtax @emilyandthelime

          1 reply 1 retweet 4 likes
        3. Mathew 'Night Science' Ling‏ @lingtax 24 Nov 2018
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @nj_tierney @o_guest and

          A lot of my difficulty is in pushing the value proposition. I'm struggling to convince some of the value of computational reproducibility, and the other benefits just don't occur to them.

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        4. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 24 Nov 2018
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @lingtax @nj_tierney and

          Please look down the thread. People have managed to do this.

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        5. Dr Emily Kothe‏ @emilyandthelime 24 Nov 2018
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @o_guest @lingtax and

          By "them" I believe @lingtax is referring to staff - our students definitely see the value.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        6. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 24 Nov 2018
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @emilyandthelime @lingtax and

          Yes, staff are sharing their stories of changing their courses to include programming modules.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        7. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 24 Nov 2018
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @o_guest @emilyandthelime and

          Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ Retweeted

          Scroll up and down this side-thread, for example: https://twitter.com/djnavarro/status/1066404110033813505?s=19 …

          Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ added,

          This Tweet is unavailable.
          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        8. Dr Emily Kothe‏ @emilyandthelime 24 Nov 2018
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @o_guest @lingtax and

          I don't want to speak for @lingtax but from my point of view the challenge is not in creating the modules or fitting in the content. As you've highlighted there are a lot of excellent people who act as role models in that regard. I'm convinced it's important and worthwhile

          1 reply 1 retweet 3 likes
        9. Dr Emily Kothe‏ @emilyandthelime 24 Nov 2018
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @emilyandthelime @o_guest and

          The challenge I have is that I don't run our undergrad research methods program so need to be able to convince my colleagues the same. In the meantime I teach R to all of our research students and bide my time.

          1 reply 1 retweet 5 likes
        10. 1 more reply
        1. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 24 Nov 2018
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @o_guest @djnavarro

          I've been noticing this rhetoric for years... I should probably finish my blog post about this and publish it

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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