So I think Sam is equating the two here as people keep doing that – see the outrage at that (bad) chronicle article, or one of the replies to the original tweet of this thread. If people don’t see them as the same(ish), they should just join SIPS as a movement and leave OS be
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Bros were anti diversity/inclusivity before they moved into online spaces (e.g., Twitter) & they were like this at conferences and within their labs and so on. They hold relative positions of power. So yes, it's bullying but we need to be careful what we describe as bullying.
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I just want to be careful because context collapse on Twitter is rife. I condemn actual bullying but I don't think it's a useful blanket label here. The real issue is the lack of diversity and inclusivity and the pushback when we try to address this.
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In other words almost everyone would agree "being nice" is important but without grounding what I/we mean by "nice" we would all agree without actually changing our behaviour. So yes, we should all not bully and be nice, but it's too vague to be actionable.
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Agree with all of this. And specifying what is nice and what is bullying is important, otherwise we end up in a place where no criticism is ok, no matter how constructive it is.
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I'm not sure we end up in a place "where no criticism is ok" but otherwise agreed. Having been in spaces where the advice was "be nice" what tends to happen is not being nice becomes OK very quickly.
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The real way to actually be nice is to have a code of conduct and to enforce it. Tolerance of intolerance is not OK.
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A code of conduct is a good idea. Bullying existed before Twitter. On Twitter it is just more visible (and dangerous). It usually results in attacking people with less connections, less admin power, any minority, can be sexist or ageist, so affects inclusivity and diversity
End of conversation
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Anything that might be considered bullying punching up needs to be pretty harsh to be called bullying imho. If our threshold for bullying punching up is too low, then shouting "bullies!" is just reinforcing the status quo.
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I mean very very very roughly, yes. But I would rather look at things on a case-by-case basis as one would with bullying generally in a workplace, school, etc. Don't forget that biases outside the academic hierarchy like gender, race, social class, etc., can be involved here too.
End of conversation
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