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o_guest's profile
Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ
Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ
Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ
@o_guest

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Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ

@o_guest

• goth gremlin • computational cognitive/neuroscience modeling • geek & techish Cypriot • plant aficionada • came up with #bropenscience • http://neuroplausible.com  •

Τότεναμ, Λονδίνο & Cyprus
olivia.science
Joined October 2015

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    1. Iris van Rooij‏ @IrisVanRooij 9 Oct 2018
      • Report Tweet

      Iris van Rooij Retweeted Max Coltheart

      Distinction between 'a theory being testable in principle" versus "being able to think of a *concrete* experiment to test the theory' is important, because too often if exp psychologists can't think of an experiment right away they think the theory is at fault. (cc @annemscheel)https://twitter.com/maxcoltheart/status/1049607054162182144 …

      Iris van Rooij added,

      Max Coltheart @maxcoltheart
      Another good point. The hypothesis "The brain is a Bayesian machine" isn't currently testable & we can't think of any advances in technology that could make it testable. But if one can demonstrat that some current hypothesis would be testable by plausible future technology . . . https://twitter.com/IrisVanRooij/status/1049603933214261249 …
      2 replies 5 retweets 33 likes
    2. Anne Scheel‏ @annemscheel 9 Oct 2018
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @IrisVanRooij

      That's a really good point. Out of curiosity, would you be in favour of splitting the field into theoretical and experimental (or maybe rather "empirical") psychology?

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    3. Brad Wyble‏ @bradpwyble 9 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @annemscheel @IrisVanRooij

      My preference would be not to do this. I think theorists need to work closely with experimentalists and giving them a separate designation would go against that idea. Ideally all theorists should do some empirical work, imo, to understand how messy data is.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    4. Iris van Rooij‏ @IrisVanRooij 9 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @bradpwyble @annemscheel

      Disagree and false opposition. More later :)

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    5. Iris van Rooij‏ @IrisVanRooij 9 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @IrisVanRooij @bradpwyble @annemscheel

      OK, to clarify: I think that what you say Brad about theoretical psychologists also needing/benefiting from some empirical training is not in contradiction to my proposal. Moreover, I think the converse is true too: i.e., exp psych get some theoretical/formal/modeling training.

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    6. Iris van Rooij‏ @IrisVanRooij 9 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @IrisVanRooij @bradpwyble @annemscheel

      Still, it is good to have more people who specialize in theory than we have at the moment (much too little compared to the masses trained in exp psych), and generally it is good for science to have *spread* of people with *different* types of expertise.

      2 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
    7. Brad Wyble‏ @bradpwyble 9 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @IrisVanRooij @annemscheel

      Yes exactly. I'm not suggesting that they spend half-time on empirical work, just that they've had a chance to work with raw data, and thereby understand how the sausage is made. Otherwise I think one overweights small incidental findings and theories can be overfit.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Brad Wyble‏ @bradpwyble 9 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @bradpwyble @IrisVanRooij @annemscheel

      What I think is definitely not a good idea is having a rigid distinction between experimentalists and theoreticians, which seems in general agreement with your perspective.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 9 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @bradpwyble @IrisVanRooij @annemscheel

      Where do you all see modelling fitting in to this dissociation of the field into complimentary parts? For me, it's definitely an activity somewhere in the middle, but for many empirical people it's seen as pointless or otherwise misunderstood.

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    10. Brad Wyble‏ @bradpwyble 9 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @o_guest @IrisVanRooij @annemscheel

      I think that's exactly why theory people need to have real experimental expertise, so that they know how to reach out effectively to those folks, and how to frame their models (e.g. minimize equations in pubs) so that the exp. folk want to read them.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 9 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @bradpwyble @IrisVanRooij @annemscheel

      I've work with data gathered by others. I've gathered data myself but only once and for an online thing (http://rescience.science ), so I don't really count it TBH. I have been involved in the design of experiments but never very very closely.

      12:34 PM - 9 Oct 2018
      • 3 Likes
      • deen-chan Brad Wyble Iris van Rooij
      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 9 Oct 2018
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @o_guest @bradpwyble and

          But I have no idea if you consider me (I consider myself a modeller) a theory person and if you think I have "real experimental expertise"?

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 9 Oct 2018
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @o_guest @bradpwyble and

          Most people have experimental experience in the way I use these words due to the way cogsci and psych are taught. Modellers seem to emerge despite not because of most programmes — because the focus seems to be almost always empirical.

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        4. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 9 Oct 2018
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @o_guest @bradpwyble and

          So unless my experiences are somehow outlier ones (which they may be I realise I'm in a very small minority of people within cog/psych) I believe it's already the case that experimental experience is a baseline experience all PhDs have.

          2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        5. Iris van Rooij‏ @IrisVanRooij 9 Oct 2018
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @o_guest @bradpwyble @annemscheel

          Sometimes exp training can even hinder theoretical development. Not saying no empirical expertise is useful for theoretician, but also see how drilling of exp training can kill all conceptual creativity & make people conflate statistical hypothesis with substantive theory.

          1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
        6. Brad Wyble‏ @bradpwyble 9 Oct 2018
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          Replying to @IrisVanRooij @o_guest @annemscheel

          If you're analyzing data, I think that's essentially empirical experience. I think the important aspect is just to know that data can be messy so that you don't get too attached to a particular interpretation of it.

          1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
        7. Iris van Rooij‏ @IrisVanRooij 9 Oct 2018
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @bradpwyble @o_guest @annemscheel

          This is a good point, e.g. was at meeting with logicians & a cognitive scientist showed a plot of human data, with 3 noisy lines. I and other empirically trained ppl understood the general pattern. A logician asked "why do the lines zig-zag & how does your theory explain that?"

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        8. Iris van Rooij‏ @IrisVanRooij 9 Oct 2018
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          Replying to @IrisVanRooij @bradpwyble and

          Just saying: that some experience with the variability in data / phenomena of interest can give one a better sense of what pattern in the observations is in need of substantive theoretical explanation.

          2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        9. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 9 Oct 2018
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @IrisVanRooij @bradpwyble @annemscheel

          Yeah, I've been where that logician was. 🤣 The only stats-related thing I knew before I moved to Psychology were Bayesian graphical models. I can't believe after more than a decade the module still exists and is taught by the same person! https://www.york.ac.uk/students/studying/manage/programmes/module-catalogue/module/COM00032H/2018-19 …

          2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        10. 3 more replies

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