I agree. One of the reasons PIs often prefer prolific ECRs (especially 1st authored ones) is not b/c the science is good (on the contrary, over production is often associated w/ salami slicing & shallow investigations) but b/c it signals that the ECR is a capable writer.
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Replying to @chrisdc77 @micahgallen
So a PI will be thinking: "well their science isn't great but they can write (the one thing I really don't want to have to teach them) so if they join my lab & do better quality science I'll get the best out of them" It's not a great reason on its own, but it is understandable>
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Replying to @chrisdc77 @micahgallen
Especially for relatively junior PIs who face enormous publication pressures, and hiring a smart, technically capable post doc at that level but who is incapable of writing quickly and to a high standard can be a real career killer. I've seen it happen to people.
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Replying to @chrisdc77 @micahgallen
I believe you, but it worries me even more if that's a skill weighting being used.
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Replying to @o_guest @micahgallen
Also, I think many (perhaps most) PIs would prefer to train new ECRs to do better science rather than teach them to write, which the PI may have zero ability to do even they are a great writer themselves. Teaching folks to write better is fearsomely hard.
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But how to do science is what you already learned as a PhD. The postdoc is supposed to be simply more experience with methods and maybe an additional field.
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You'd hope! Didn't exactly happen to many of us!
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I am frustrated how pervasively people talk about how freshly graduated PhD still were no scientists. They should be scientists coming out of college and they should be experienced researchers graduatong from a PhD program.
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My story is very different to the ideal. But I made it and fixed my gaps and mistakes along the way. I worry about those who don't get the chance to!
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I am a proponent of not allowing people graduate who can't be considered capable. It devalues the PhD. I tip my hat to your hard work. I just don't think the system should let such gaps happen!
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Agreed.
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Agreed too. For this to become the reality (at least in UK) would require substantial reshaping of graduate programmes. Once PhD students pass their 1st year, it is expected that the supervisor will do more-or-less whatever it takes for them to (a) submit something, & (b) pass.
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Replying to @chrisdc77 @o_guest and
Inevitably this means that some students pass with significant gaps in their training.
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End of conversation
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