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o_guest's profile
Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ
Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ
Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ
@o_guest

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Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ

@o_guest

• goth gremlin • computational cognitive/neuroscience modeling • geek & techish Cypriot • plant aficionada • came up with #bropenscience • http://neuroplausible.com  •

Τότεναμ, Λονδίνο & Cyprus
olivia.science
Joined October 2015

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    1. Grace Lindsay‏ @neurograce 13 Aug 2018
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @IrisVanRooij @chazfirestone and

      This to me just comes down to a difference in use of "explanation" in this case. I'm OK with saying something is so difficult to explain it's essentially unexplainable. That's dif than something being, on principle, unexplainable in terms of something else.

      2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    2. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 13 Aug 2018
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @neurograce @IrisVanRooij and

      I guess it boils to whether you believe the whole can be greater than the sum of its parts, whether you believe emergent phenomena exist, right?

      1 reply 1 retweet 0 likes
    3. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 13 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @o_guest @neurograce and

      I haven't read this paper in years but I recall it helped me structure my own thoughts on this issue in a more coherent way: Bersini, H. (2012). Emergent phenomena belong only to biology. Synthese, 185(2), 257-272.https://doi.org/10.1007/s11229-010-9724-4 …

      1 reply 2 retweets 4 likes
    4. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 13 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @o_guest @neurograce and

      I haven't read this literature in years... I spent the whole of 2008/9 really geeking out on top-down, bottom-up, mid-out analyses (saw Iris use this last term/made me smile), as an UG in CS. Nobody in CS is a dualist but they certainly believe in levels of abstraction.

      1 reply 1 retweet 4 likes
    5. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 13 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @o_guest @neurograce and

      But anyway, my point is that yes, you can probably explain stuff in terms of quantum mechanics for every subject. There could be a theory of economics that explained it using QM... but would that be a useful account? I would argue: no.

      3 replies 1 retweet 3 likes
    6. Grace Lindsay‏ @neurograce 13 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @o_guest @IrisVanRooij and

      Thats totally reasonable. But it seems people have somehow turned "it's not useful" into "it's not possible." At least that's what I feel like I'm see occasionally & that makes no sense to me.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    7. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 13 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @neurograce @IrisVanRooij and

      I think you need to unpack what they mean by "possible".

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Grace Lindsay‏ @neurograce 13 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @o_guest @IrisVanRooij and

      haha, trying!

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    9. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 13 Aug 2018
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @neurograce @IrisVanRooij and

      Sorry, I wasn't trying to imply you you (Grace) just the dialogue needs to probe that. Because "possible" might easily mean "impractical" or even "unfeasible". Somethings are physically possible but practically impossible.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    10. Iris van Rooij‏ @IrisVanRooij 13 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @o_guest @neurograce and

      Indeed, I was thinking of impossible in terms of something akin to uncomputable.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 13 Aug 2018
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @IrisVanRooij @neurograce and

      Somebody might have even tried to do this mathematically. Haha.

      5:41 AM - 13 Aug 2018
      • 1 Like
      • Iris van Rooij
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        2. Iris van Rooij‏ @IrisVanRooij 13 Aug 2018
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @o_guest @neurograce and

          Kolmogorov complexity theory perhaps most suited. Reminds me about a discussion I had some time ago with @bradpwyble and others on ‘compression’ and whether it was necessary and/or sufficient fir explanation. Let me see if I can dig up that thread ...

          1 reply 1 retweet 1 like
        3. Iris van Rooij‏ @IrisVanRooij 13 Aug 2018
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @IrisVanRooij @o_guest and

          Iris van Rooij Retweeted Brad Wyble

          Here is an entry into that previous discussion: https://twitter.com/bradpwyble/status/969340304808693760?s=21 … Scroll up to see the OP.

          Iris van Rooij added,

          Brad Wyble @bradpwyble
          Replying to @theblub @IrisVanRooij
          I don't quite see it as being circular. People understand the world, by building internal representations/models of it (which I view as a form of compression). In science, we call these "theories", but it's not dramatically different from what every baby does. What's circular?
          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        4. Brad Wyble‏ @bradpwyble 13 Aug 2018
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          Replying to @IrisVanRooij @o_guest and

          Oh yes that one. I agree with Grace btw, that it's possible even though perhaps incomputable, and that's a useful distinction to maintain.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Iris van Rooij‏ @IrisVanRooij 13 Aug 2018
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          Replying to @bradpwyble @o_guest and

          The distinction is useful, but question is if uncomputable ‘explanations’ are explanations in meanigful sense. Perhaps different word should be used for such relation: eg ‘reductive relation’, ‘implementability’ or ‘realizability’ (brainstorming here) instead of ‘explainable’.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Brad Wyble‏ @bradpwyble 13 Aug 2018
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @IrisVanRooij @o_guest and

          I think this distinction inevitability boils down to strong dualism vs materialism.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Iris van Rooij‏ @IrisVanRooij 13 Aug 2018
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @bradpwyble @o_guest and

          You lost me. I proposed clearer terminology that respects the distiction, not dualistic ontology.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        8. Brad Wyble‏ @bradpwyble 13 Aug 2018
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @IrisVanRooij @o_guest and

          What I meant was "Reduction is possible in theory even if completely incomputable" seems to boil down to "I believe that physical matter is responsible for mental phenomena".

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        9. Iris van Rooij‏ @IrisVanRooij 13 Aug 2018
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @bradpwyble @o_guest and

          But I already said I’m a materialist. Not sure how agreeing on materialism helps. Clearly there is no agreement in this thread (and branches) on ‘explanation’ and ‘reduction’ while we are all presumably materialists.

          2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        10. 14 more replies

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