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o_guest's profile
Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ
Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ
Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ
@o_guest

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Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ

@o_guest

• goth gremlin • computational cognitive/neuroscience modeling • geek & techish Cypriot • plant aficionada • came up with #bropenscience • http://neuroplausible.com  •

Τότεναμ, Λονδίνο & Cyprus
olivia.science
Joined October 2015

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    1. Chaz Firestone‏ @chazfirestone 12 Aug 2018
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @barner_ucsd @danieldennett

      FWIW I think things go even deeper than efficient predictions: for many psychological phenomena, there simply *is no* explanation other than the psychological explanation; for many economic phenomena, there is no explanation other than the economic explanation. 1/2

      2 replies 0 retweets 7 likes
    2. Grace Lindsay‏ @neurograce 13 Aug 2018
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @chazfirestone @barner_ucsd @danieldennett

      Does this mean you believe that psychological phenomena cannot be explained in terms of neural activity? I think most neuroscientists, myself included, would find that a shocking claim.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    3. Iris van Rooij‏ @IrisVanRooij 13 Aug 2018
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @neurograce @chazfirestone and

      I don’t think so, indeed.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. Iris van Rooij‏ @IrisVanRooij 13 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @IrisVanRooij @neurograce and

      To be clear, not a dualist :) More a stance on the nature of explanation.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    5. Grace Lindsay‏ @neurograce 13 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @IrisVanRooij @chazfirestone and

      I'm fine with the idea that it's very difficult/complex to explain many psych phenomena in terms of neural activity, and that it is likely not the most efficient way to talk about human behavior. But we should certainly believe it is possible.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    6. Iris van Rooij‏ @IrisVanRooij 13 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @neurograce @chazfirestone and

      Certainly believe cognition is physically realized & that the brain plays a central role. But I doubt brain activity explains everything about human behavior, because human behaviour is contextualized. That means, part of explanans must extend to outside skull into the world.

      1 reply 3 retweets 12 likes
    7. Iris van Rooij‏ @IrisVanRooij 13 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @IrisVanRooij @neurograce and

      That is aside from the fact that ‘explanation’ is itself a cognitive activity. Explanations must be graspable by human minds. It is thus not clear that everything can be explained (by humans) at every or any level (of detail).

      3 replies 1 retweet 7 likes
    8. Grace Lindsay‏ @neurograce 13 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @IrisVanRooij @chazfirestone and

      This to me just comes down to a difference in use of "explanation" in this case. I'm OK with saying something is so difficult to explain it's essentially unexplainable. That's dif than something being, on principle, unexplainable in terms of something else.

      2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    9. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 13 Aug 2018
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @neurograce @IrisVanRooij and

      I guess it boils to whether you believe the whole can be greater than the sum of its parts, whether you believe emergent phenomena exist, right?

      1 reply 1 retweet 0 likes
      Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 13 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @o_guest @neurograce and

      I haven't read this paper in years but I recall it helped me structure my own thoughts on this issue in a more coherent way: Bersini, H. (2012). Emergent phenomena belong only to biology. Synthese, 185(2), 257-272.https://doi.org/10.1007/s11229-010-9724-4 …

      5:20 AM - 13 Aug 2018
      • 2 Retweets
      • 4 Likes
      • Paul Miller Ryn Linthicum Arun Niranjan Iris van Rooij Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ
      1 reply 2 retweets 4 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 13 Aug 2018
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @o_guest @neurograce and

          I haven't read this literature in years... I spent the whole of 2008/9 really geeking out on top-down, bottom-up, mid-out analyses (saw Iris use this last term/made me smile), as an UG in CS. Nobody in CS is a dualist but they certainly believe in levels of abstraction.

          1 reply 1 retweet 4 likes
        3. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 13 Aug 2018
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @o_guest @neurograce and

          But anyway, my point is that yes, you can probably explain stuff in terms of quantum mechanics for every subject. There could be a theory of economics that explained it using QM... but would that be a useful account? I would argue: no.

          3 replies 1 retweet 3 likes
        4. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 13 Aug 2018
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @o_guest @neurograce and

          In fact I made this point before. "Nevertheless, fMRI has proven useful in understanding neural representations that are consequential to behavior. Perhaps this success suggests that the appropriate level for relating brain to behavior is close to what fMRI measures.

          1 reply 1 retweet 2 likes
        5. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 13 Aug 2018
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @o_guest @neurograce and

          This does not mean lower-level efforts do not have utility when the details are of interest. However, fMRI’s success might mean that when one is interested in the nature of computations carried out by the brain, the level of analysis where fMRI applies may be preferred.

          1 reply 1 retweet 3 likes
        6. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 13 Aug 2018
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @o_guest @neurograce and

          To draw an analogy, one could construct a theory of macroeconomics based on quantum physics, but it would be incredibly cumbersome and no more predictive nor explanatory than a theory that contained abstract concepts such as money and supply.

          1 reply 1 retweet 3 likes
        7. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 13 Aug 2018
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @o_guest @neurograce and

          Reductionism, while seductive, is not always the best path forward."https://doi.org/10.7554/eLife.21397 …

          1 reply 2 retweets 3 likes
        8. Brad Wyble‏ @bradpwyble 13 Aug 2018
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @o_guest @neurograce and

          I agree with some of what youve said but not that fmri is a good way to link behavior to biology. IMO, It's one of many approaches and not particularly good for understanding mechanisms.

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        9. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 13 Aug 2018
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @bradpwyble @neurograce and

          We don't have to agree. Unlike what a lot of non-scientists believe, science actually progresses because we all have different views on stuff.

          1 reply 1 retweet 3 likes
        10. 1 more reply

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