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o_guest's profile
Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ
Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ
Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ
@o_guest

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Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ

@o_guest

• goth gremlin • computational cognitive/neuroscience modeling • geek & techish Cypriot • plant aficionada • came up with #bropenscience • http://neuroplausible.com  •

Τότεναμ, Λονδίνο & Cyprus
olivia.science
Joined October 2015

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    1. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 11 Jul 2018
      • Report Tweet

      Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ Retweeted Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ

      After a year plus of having written this, I'm finally seeing his view become more and more mainstream. Heartening! 😊https://twitter.com/o_guest/status/842794088315404288 …

      Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ added,

      Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ @o_guest
      Blog post on Matlab! Thank you everybody & enjoy! 😊✨💖 I hate Matlab: How an IDE, a language, and a mentality harm http://neuroplausible.com/matlab  pic.twitter.com/h961QVLNuP
      1 reply 6 retweets 33 likes
    2. Benjohn Barnes‏ @benjohnbarnes 11 Jul 2018
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @o_guest @fanf

      The bit of this I disagree with is that “proper” programming without an IDE, keeping programs in text files and not being able to play / explore / visualise is somehow a good thing. It’s a horrible thing! It’s just what we are stuck with currently. I misunderstand?

      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Dima Pasechnik‏ @dimpase 11 Jul 2018
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      Replying to @benjohnbarnes @o_guest @fanf

      you can play/explore/visualise in, say, Jupyter notebook, a free IDE, very well in e.g. Python or Julia or even C++, without any Matlab tax to be paid...

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. Benjohn Barnes‏ @benjohnbarnes 11 Jul 2018
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      Replying to @dimpase @o_guest @fanf

      Ah, okay. I probably skimmed too much, sorry!

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 11 Jul 2018
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      Replying to @benjohnbarnes @dimpase @fanf

      Proper programming requires you to have abstract concepts in your mind. Just like proper maths isn't counting stuff on your fingers. Nothing wrong with an IDE but some abstractions are abstract and I'd prefer people got them before always using the easy way.

      1 reply 2 retweets 5 likes
    6. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 11 Jul 2018
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      Replying to @o_guest @benjohnbarnes and

      By "I prefer" I mean to say that my experience has taught me people need to learn these things and represent them internally so they can actually be productive. IDEs are great and I would never stop people using them. But some concepts are simple and must be internalised.

      1 reply 1 retweet 3 likes
      Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 11 Jul 2018
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      Replying to @o_guest @benjohnbarnes and

      In the same way you want to remove training wheels because the impair learning how to ride a bike properly, there are moments in which na IDE should be avoided to promote learning. After you've learned to ride a bike, adding training wheels doesn't impair your learning.

      12:14 PM - 11 Jul 2018
      • 1 Retweet
      • 3 Likes
      • Dr Owain Kenway Dr. Janna Gottwald Esther Mondragón Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ
      3 replies 1 retweet 3 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 11 Jul 2018
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @o_guest @benjohnbarnes and

          The metaphor only stretches a certain amount. But I think it's a basic pedagogical point.

          4 replies 1 retweet 3 likes
        3. Benjohn Barnes‏ @benjohnbarnes 11 Jul 2018
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          Replying to @o_guest @dimpase @fanf

          I'm with, I believe, @.worrydream and probably @.EdwardTufte and maybe Alan Kay – I think most of our cognitive potential comes from the cognitive tools we use. IDEs are _cognitive tools_, as much as algebra, group theory, or knowing logical fallacies.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. Benjohn Barnes‏ @benjohnbarnes 11 Jul 2018
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          Replying to @benjohnbarnes @o_guest and

          They're not a crutch any more than algebra is. I'd go as far as to say society and the cognitive tools it grants us are what distinguishes us from "prehistoric" humans. The hardware's barely changed. But the tools make us more.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Benjohn Barnes‏ @benjohnbarnes 11 Jul 2018
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          Replying to @benjohnbarnes @o_guest and

          And this is why I am very frustrated with the tooling that exists around contemporary software engineering. I think it's extremely poor, and an enormous hinderance to our abilities.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        6. Benjohn Barnes‏ @benjohnbarnes 11 Jul 2018
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          Replying to @benjohnbarnes @o_guest and

          So – I'm not a Matlab user, and it may well be a dreadful IDE! There are lots of poor cognitive tools out there that lead us astray and stop us thinking well (eg, powerpoint & pi charts). But cognitive tools themselves, and IDEs in principle, are not the problem. IMHO.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Benjohn Barnes‏ @benjohnbarnes 11 Jul 2018
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          Replying to @benjohnbarnes @o_guest and

          And also – I do agree that you might get some benefit / insight from forgoing powerful cognitive tools (eg, algebra) for a while to see what happens. But I don't think it's generally good advice.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. Benjohn Barnes‏ @benjohnbarnes 11 Jul 2018
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          Replying to @benjohnbarnes @o_guest and

          Any more than wearing boxing gloves to play violin, or walking in concrete boots, or painting a wall with a toothbrush, or using imperial is going to be broadly educational. It might be an interesting experience though.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        9. Benjohn Barnes‏ @benjohnbarnes 11 Jul 2018
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          Replying to @benjohnbarnes @o_guest and

          Incidentally, as a counter argument, I did not a single time correctly spell "cognitive" in the above without my spell checker first putting a nice red line under "cognative". So that might be a crutch for me ;-)

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        10. 19 more replies
        1. New conversation
        2. Andrew & Sabrina‏ @PsychScientists 11 Jul 2018
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @o_guest @benjohnbarnes and

          I dunno, I think if someone put training wheels on my bike I’d hurt myself 🤔

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 11 Jul 2018
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @PsychScientists @benjohnbarnes and

          That could still count as learning. 😅

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        4. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Dr Owain Kenway‏ @owainkenway 12 Jul 2018
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          Replying to @o_guest @benjohnbarnes and

          I’ve had colleagues see similar things try to get students to write a program in bare python after teaching them for a term in Jupyter. It was not pretty!

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Benjohn Barnes‏ @benjohnbarnes 12 Jul 2018
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          Replying to @owainkenway @o_guest and

          *nods* … I get that there's a real world out there where programming in bare Python is a useful skill. I'm challenging that this is a good thing though. I anticipate we'll put that behind us at some point, and that will be a good thing.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Dr Owain Kenway‏ @owainkenway 12 Jul 2018
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          Replying to @benjohnbarnes @o_guest and

          I guess conceptually, I can see where you are coming from, but I disagree and I'll try to explain. I think if we take this away from the quite reasonably emotive argument about expensive tools we can see other environments where the IDE is intimately tied into the language used.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Dr Owain Kenway‏ @owainkenway 12 Jul 2018
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          Replying to @owainkenway @benjohnbarnes and

          In the early days of BASIC on a microcomputer, this was certainly true. We wrote code in an integrated environment with a line editor, a debugger etc. and indeed on many platforms the programs weren't even stored as plain text.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        6. Dr Owain Kenway‏ @owainkenway 12 Jul 2018
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          Replying to @owainkenway @benjohnbarnes and

          (sorry, thanks twitter I've broken the threading, see here https://twitter.com/owainkenway/status/10173361982626734080 …)

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        7. End of conversation

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