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mjtsai's profile
Michael Tsai
Michael Tsai
Michael Tsai
Verified account
@mjtsai

Michael TsaiVerified account

@mjtsai

Mac Software Developer

Joined August 2007
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    1. Colin Cornaby ‏@colincornaby Jul 18

      But seriously, my favorite thing about Obj-C is it's a language for getting work done and complicated language semantics. Don't ruin that.

      0 replies 2 retweets 4 likes
    2. Colin Cornaby ‏@colincornaby Jul 18

      Obj-C certainly has some missing features. But the trend of language "correctness" over getting shit done in Swift worries me.

      0 replies 3 retweets 9 likes
    3. Colin Cornaby ‏@colincornaby Jul 18

      That's the rabbit hole C++ went down, and sure, C++ is popular, but no one enjoys C++.

      0 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    4. Colin Cornaby ‏@colincornaby Jul 18

      Basically Swift excited me most as C++ without the C++, and it's just starting to become plain C++.

      0 replies 5 retweets 7 likes
    5. Joe Groff ‏@jckarter Jul 18

      @colincornaby Swift aims to let API vendors be very precise about what they expose, and abstract everything else.

      0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Colin Cornaby ‏@colincornaby Jul 18

      @jckarter Sure, I just prefer that restriction to be explicit over implicit. I think a lot of classes will be unnecessarily final.

      0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Colin Cornaby ‏@colincornaby Jul 18

      @jckarter I do a heck of a lot of subclassing things that aren't even meant to be subclassed for mocking tests around my own code.

      0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Joe Groff ‏@jckarter Jul 18

      @colincornaby OTOH, components that interface with protocols have *more* flexibility for mocking and hotfixing than subclassing.

      0 replies 1 retweet 6 likes
    9. Dr. Sneed ‏@bsneed Jul 18

      @jckarter @colincornaby , and this proposal isn't really forcing them to do that, it feels more like just creating pain on end-users.

      0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Joe Groff ‏@jckarter Jul 18

      @bsneed @colincornaby It doesn't affect end users at all. The frameworks aren't going to spontaneously rewrite themselves in Swift.

      0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
      Michael Tsai Verified account ‏@mjtsai Jul 18

      @jckarter @bsneed @colincornaby If it truly “doesn’t affect end users at all,” what could be the point of the change?

      • Likes 2
      • iKyle Vadim
      2:29 PM - 18 Jul 2016
      0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        1. Joe Groff ‏@jckarter Jul 18

          Joe Groff Retweeted Joe Groff

          @mjtsai @bsneed @colincornabyhttps://twitter.com/jckarter/status/755149856994316288 …

          Joe Groff added,

          Joe Groff @jckarter
          @bsneed @colincornaby The default is all about making sure API authors don't make irrevocable mistakes without thinking about them.
          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        2. View other replies
        3. Michael Tsai ‏@mjtsai Jul 18

          @jckarter Right, but presumably you expect that to ultimately benefit end users (indirectly).

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. View other replies
        5. Joe Groff ‏@jckarter Jul 18

          @mjtsai Users who are third-party framework devs I expect will benefit the most.

          0 replies 1 retweet 5 likes
        6. View other replies
        7. Michael Tsai ‏@mjtsai Jul 18

          @jckarter You’re saying no change for Apple Swift frameworks because you consider the API, but it’s about protecting others who don’t?

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. View other replies
        9. Joe Groff ‏@jckarter Jul 18

          @mjtsai Many users would prematurely reach for 'final' to get a similar effect and be stuck with it w/o the new default behavior.

          0 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
        10. Michael Tsai ‏@mjtsai Jul 18

          @jckarter I would have thought you could revoke a final across a module boundary because clients can’t inline, anyway.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        11. Joe Groff ‏@jckarter Jul 18

          @mjtsai 'final' also influences things like dynamic casts and protocol conformance. e.g. Don't need to be covariant if there's no subtyping.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        12. Michael Tsai ‏@mjtsai Jul 18

          @jckarter Aha, that makes sense. So then you either force a recompile or can’t optimize.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes

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