I was going to dive into a thread, but I find it incredibly hard to convert my thoughts about this into something that doesn't just come off as nonsense, or common sense at best. I've talked to four people about this, and only one of them could go down this rabbit hole with me.
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13/ You can’t just go chasing some pure, 'authentic' ultimate really real reality. You can try, but can’t really extricate one from the other. You have to play with both sides...in theory.
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14/ Emotion is a good example for people to access these ideas. It sounds a lot, a lot like form/emptiness. I have a reasonable contact with the somatic experience of emotion, but I really struggle to slap a symbol onto that. I can conceptually identify some big ones though.
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15/ Eg: Most people think anger is really real...and it is, kind of. What is anger actually? Anger is a fixated symbol of a sensory reality. That sensory experience itself is not ‘anger’.
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16/ In fact, some emotional experience goes unnoticed precisely because you don't have a symbol for it. I suspect it's the same for neurotypicals: psychologists call it alexithymia IIRC.
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17/ This area of symbol and reality kind of makes sense when we consider it from a meditative point of view - but it gets a bit weirder when you see the same patterns at work in different contexts.
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18/ As this is supposed to somehow relate to mediation, I'll close with an experiment for you: when you look at a flower, what is symbol and what is reality? Look at the visual experience, look at the emotional sensations, look look look!
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19/ Now, think of someone heart-quakingly inspirational to you, or someone who you have deep gratitude perhaps. What is symbol and what is reality here? How is the person different from the flower?
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20/ Last step - take the flower as a symbolic representation of that person. Do the same exercise. It is shocking the degree to which your entire experience is saturated with/as symbol. Imagination is a powerful thing.
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21/ I've had someone get viscerally angry at me for talking like this. They dismissed my claims as 'social-contructivist crap' when we ventured into the 'War on Terror' and other symbolically justified horrors of humanity. People like their symbolic reality non-symbolic, thanks.
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22/ The beeper just went on my dinner. So you'll all have to imagine all the other silly words I could say on the topic. The End.
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End of conversation
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