Mi'sen

Ah… then “it’s not the shape, it’s the specific power dynamics” seems the right diagnosis (or a significant part of one).

OTOH it seems that the rejection of “The Guru Model” is often a blanket rejection of any asymmetrical relationship. It’s usually contrasted with “The Spiritual Friend Model,” which sounds nice because friendship is a symmetrical relationship. But that model doesn’t exist either…

This is where I personally get stuck when trying to imagine a future Vajrayana. As long as those simplistic alternatives are the only available conceptions of teachers, it’s impossible.

I’ve experienced profound transmission experiences with close teachers, and have entered into insanely deep relationships with students. I see this reflected in my cohort of peers also, though it isn’t talked about openly much...

Yes, it seems delicate. But if there’s a way of talking about it openly, that might be of great value.

Granted this happened after years of relationship and having built up tremendous trust already. I think that was essential, and is essential, to these more profound, non-conventional relationships.

Yes, generally, years of relationship are critical. That’s one of the key points missed in the I-like-the-spiritual-friend-model-better discourse.