Mi'sen on Twitter: "I agree with that, but I don’t think that would count as ‘awakening’ according to the definition Chagmé is using here. Of course, this conversation isn’t new. Meditators have been confusing each other over use of terms for thousands of years.… https://t.co/72skrFhn8T"

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Chagmé‏ @chagmed 12 Jan 2019

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Replying to @Kairos0101

Don't know much about KW, other than that he was supposed to be the Messiah, but it didn't quite work out. Was commenting on his photo in your profile.

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Kairos‏ @Kairos0101 12 Jan 2019

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Understood. Don't know where the 'Messiah' perspective arose... I viewed him as a synthesizer... 'integralist' of course. I first came across him in late 80's - early 90's. "Spectrum of Consciousness" He was associated with another 'influence' - Franklin Jones. AKA: "Adi Da".

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Chagmé‏ @chagmed 12 Jan 2019

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ah yes, the greatest ever realized being — 9th stage — better than Buddha and Jesus put together; goes to live on an island in Fiji, doesn't interact with any other teachers, says no being at his level will ever be required, evah.

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Kairos‏ @Kairos0101 12 Jan 2019

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Exactly. In my estimation, they (KW & Da) 'touched' the hem of the garment but couldn't reside in the 'holy of holy's'. Insanity and megalomania are prominent diseases among the 'enlightened'. 'Da's' final books were a tour of both... Absurd and truly pathetic.

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Kairos‏ @Kairos0101 12 Jan 2019

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'Note': Alan Watts 'endorsed' Franklin Jones (Da) book: "The Knee of Listening" with: "A rare being... he knows what it's all about". Based on the phenomenon of states/stages it seems more than 'likely' that such 'ex-periences' come/go... 'Realization', 'unstable'. Until?...

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Jason Snyder‏ @cognazor 12 Jan 2019

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Replying to @Kairos0101 @chagmed

Jason Snyder Retweeted Michael W Taft

This thread is pertinent:https://twitter.com/OortCloudAtlas/status/1084099648376180736?s=19 …

Jason Snyder added,

Michael W Taft @OortCloudAtlas

Awakening and psychological growth are largely orthogonal. While one can definitely help the other, they are entirely different things. You can be very awake and still be a total asshole. From my viewpoint, awakening is just the beginning of the path, and nothing like the end.

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Chagmé‏ @chagmed 12 Jan 2019

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Replying to @cognazor @Kairos0101

I don't get that at all. If there is awakening, there is awareness of cause, condition, and effect. This includes pacification of kleshas. Dunno what it means to have kleshas pacified, and still be an egomaniac, narcissist, psychopath, etc.

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Chagmé‏ @chagmed 12 Jan 2019

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Replying to @chagmed @cognazor @Kairos0101

I met a Western lama, visited his center. He was kind to me, was a good teacher, but I found his interaction with his own students to be abusive. His sangha behaved like adult children of an alcoholic. Did he have some genuine experience? Perhaps. Was he awakened? I doubt it.

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Mi'sen‏ @misen__ 12 Jan 2019

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Replying to @chagmed @cognazor @Kairos0101

Different working definitions of ‘awakening’?

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Jason Snyder‏ @cognazor 12 Jan 2019

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Replying to @misen__ @chagmed @Kairos0101

From my perspective, you can have insight into the nature of not-self, but that doesn't mean your whole messed up psychology has gotten the memo.

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Mi'sen‏ @misen__ 12 Jan 2019

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Replying to @cognazor @chagmed @Kairos0101

I agree with that, but I don’t think that would count as ‘awakening’ according to the definition Chagmé is using here. Of course, this conversation isn’t new. Meditators have been confusing each other over use of terms for thousands of years.

8:08 AM - 12 Jan 2019

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