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misen__'s profile
Mi'sen
Mi'sen
Mi'sen
@misen__

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Mi'sen

@misen__

I like to sit on my arse and relax. Genially mad. Romancing neurotypicals.

Sphere of Enjoyment
Joined October 2017

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    1. Jason Snyder‏ @cognazor 16 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @KennethFolk

      I think that self-help/meditation falls into a unique category. Yes, there are techniques that can be taught, but most learning is introspective/experiential. I appreciate the work that teachers like you do, but in the longer term I think we need a more collaborative model.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Kenneth Folk‏ @KennethFolk 16 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @cognazor

      Collaboration is great. But I wonder why you think meditation is unique. The only basis I can think of for holding it apart from other teaching/learning would be a religious argument, e.g., "the dharma is too sacred to involve money." What am I missing?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    3. Jason Snyder‏ @cognazor 16 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @KennethFolk

      1/ I can see a reasoning for a meditation teaching role in schools, for youth who aren't of a mature age (similar to normal k-12 education). But again, most meditation learning comes through individual subjective experience...

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Jason Snyder‏ @cognazor 16 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @cognazor @KennethFolk

      2/ When learning from each other in meditation, I think there is value in all being subject to similar life pressures (e.g., having a normal career), so that the 'teaching' is relevant to similar challenges...

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Jason Snyder‏ @cognazor 16 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @cognazor @KennethFolk

      Of course, some will be more experienced and have more to share, but I'm not sure why that justifies a full time teaching role...

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Jason Snyder‏ @cognazor 16 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @cognazor @KennethFolk

      WRT university, there is also an argument for revamping the structure to more self-learning DYI. But I still think it is different because it is less based on personal experiential knowledge of ones own subjectivity.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Jason Snyder‏ @cognazor 16 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @cognazor @KennethFolk

      Everybody has access to their own subjectivity, and can share introspective tips and tricks with others. And I think when the relationship is more reciprocal and collaborative and iterative, more insight will be generated than if it's top down based on the teacher.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Kenneth Folk‏ @KennethFolk 16 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @cognazor

      Seems to me a good parallel would be music. Most of your time is spent alone with your instrument. You also collaborate with other musicians. And there is a place for someone who's spent a lifetime mastering technique, theory, & education. That's your teacher. You better pay her.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    9. Jason Snyder‏ @cognazor 16 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @KennethFolk

      1/ I respectfully disagree when it comes to meditation/introspection, which I think is more fundamental than other types of learning. Of course, if people are willing to teach, and people want to pay a teacher, than that is their prerogative...

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Jason Snyder‏ @cognazor 16 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @cognazor @KennethFolk

      2/ But I don't like the model where certain individuals spend all their time meditating at the expense of more normal life activities. I think their advice is not as relevant as a collaborative model where everybody is living normal life and exploring their mind and sharing

      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      Mi'sen‏ @misen__ 16 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @cognazor @KennethFolk

      There is an argument to be made for the social function of weirdos. I think it was Krippner who made this point re: shamans/medicine men: A certain small number of people will be naturally inclined to contemplative practice & mine certain insights for the rest of the group.

      9:29 AM - 16 Nov 2018
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        2. Mi'sen‏ @misen__ 16 Nov 2018
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          Replying to @misen__ @cognazor @KennethFolk

          This is perhaps less relevant now - and even less relevant to your discussion here - but this could apply to some degree with meditation practioners/teachers. If we deny rent to weirdos who potentially keep insights & technical standards alive, we may be at risk of losing them

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Kenneth Folk‏ @KennethFolk 16 Nov 2018
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          Replying to @misen__ @cognazor

          Nailed it. It's always good to do some healthy reality testing. What do we reckon would happen if we denied meditation teachers the right to be paid for their time like everyone else? (We would be dependent on a handful of independently wealthy volunteers. Doesn't scale.)

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Kenneth Folk‏ @KennethFolk 16 Nov 2018
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          Replying to @misen__ @cognazor

          Yes. Furthermore, traditional shamans are involved in every aspect of tribal life. Bringing it up to date & using a humble example, I've worked as musician, construction worker, field biologist, woodcarver, factory worker, political activist, & baker. Now I teach meditation.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Jason Snyder‏ @cognazor 16 Nov 2018
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          Replying to @KennethFolk @misen__

          Fair enough. If it works for you and your students, then good. It is not my aesthetic.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. 5 more replies
        1. Jason Snyder‏ @cognazor 16 Nov 2018
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          Replying to @misen__ @KennethFolk

          I understand this logic. But I personally don't think it's a good model moving forward. I think everybody needs to take responsibility for their own insights, and not rely on teachers to give it to them. I prefer personal and collaborative (emergent) insight generation.

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