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I found the conversation fascinating. I think a big part of this is in how emptiness is framed - how we are taught and how we represent it back to ourselves. This is a big reason why I was attracted to Mahamudra/Dzogchen teachings: theres a poetic richness.
Jason, what you said reminds me of something Shinzen said about emptiness that it’s like biting into an apple, initially flat and tasteless, but then sweet and rich and nourishing. I suspect it’s not how emptiness ‘is’, but presenting it that way sets the groove in our psyche.
I thought Rob’s distinction from tantra was curious - obviously it is different in a bunch of ways, but it seems to have a similar sort of function in terms of going beyond emptiness - ‘free to play’ as he said. Anyway, thanks for doing the podcast - super interesting stuff.
Right, it's the initial perceived clarity of 'no inherent existence'. But that gives way to the multiplicity of 'anything is possible and fluid'
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