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Y'all say shit like this but then I get mad (I think rightly) when people say China and Russia "weren't 'true' socialism"
And socialists would say that in those countries the means of production were truly in the hands of the workers because they weren't sufficiently democratic. I think both arguments are unsubstantive deflections aiming to obscure the larger point critics are making.
yes and the seismic difference between our positions is the version of socialism they are deflecting away from maoist death camps with is imaginary, whereas the market economies i am talking about exist today
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