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michael_nielsen's profile
michael_nielsen
michael_nielsen
michael_nielsen
@michael_nielsen

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michael_nielsen

@michael_nielsen

Searching for the numinous. Co-purveyor of https://quantum.country/ 

San Francisco, CA
michaelnielsen.org
Joined July 2008

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    1. José Luis Ricón (Artir)‏ @ArtirKel Sep 25
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      Replying to @ArtirKel @michael_nielsen @danielgross

      Or, what kind of explanation are you looking for? The book talks about the evolution of sleep, and it's functional role, what else is missing?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen Sep 25
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @ArtirKel @danielgross

      One that's convincing. Unlike the half dozen or more I've previously read about the evolution of sleep and its functional role.

      1 reply 1 retweet 2 likes
    3. José Luis Ricón (Artir)‏ @ArtirKel Sep 25
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      Replying to @michael_nielsen @danielgross

      Can you link me to the previous ones and why they are not convincing?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    4. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen Sep 25
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @ArtirKel @danielgross

      I'm in a slightly odd spot here. I feel a little as though I've commented that astrology isn't all that convincing, and someone now wants a list of what I've read about astrology (a fair number of tidbits, over my life, but it was all bad, so I don't remember any titles);

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    5. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen Sep 25
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      Replying to @michael_nielsen @ArtirKel @danielgross

      and they pointers to explanations of why it's not convincing (well, it's so obviously not that I'd never bother looking up such explanations). I don't mean to make an equivalence: the "explanations" of sleep I've read were mostly somewhat better than those of astrology.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    6. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen Sep 25
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      Replying to @michael_nielsen @ArtirKel @danielgross

      But they weren't serious. Of course, I may be quite wrong about the current book. But all I can say is: the reviews mostly didn't make me want to spend the time reading it. I mentally bucketed it under:

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen Sep 25
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      Replying to @michael_nielsen @ArtirKel @danielgross

      "may be useful for learning about _how_ & _why_ to sleep better, won't help much in explaining why sleep happens."

      1 reply 1 retweet 3 likes
    8. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen Sep 25
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      Replying to @michael_nielsen @ArtirKel @danielgross

      This is a somewhat uncomfortable thread to be writing. It's began with a throwaway joke from my point of view. I don't regard my own point of view above as especially serious or well-founded. It's just how I arrived at my priors, and may be wrong.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. José Luis Ricón (Artir)‏ @ArtirKel Sep 25
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      Replying to @michael_nielsen @danielgross

      I see, then I'll have to look for these other explanations and make the case to you in a way you find convincing :-p I might email you at some point then

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    10. Patrick Collison‏Verified account @patrickc Sep 25
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      Replying to @ArtirKel @michael_nielsen @danielgross

      I think MN means something like "why couldn't humans have evolved to not sleep?" And even if it's not what he meant, that's what I'd love to understand. :-)

      2 replies 2 retweets 19 likes
      michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen Sep 25
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      Replying to @patrickc @ArtirKel @danielgross

      That's a substantial part of it! So many weird physiological changes (& multiple sleep states); the claimed benefits could plausibly be achieved in less costly ways, that didn't involve debilitating us for a third of the day.

      8:39 AM - 25 Sep 2019
      • 2 Retweets
      • 8 Likes
      • Laurenz Hemmen Brian Heligman WonkaWasInnocent Tikhon Bernstam Ming Arnaud Schenk Patrick Collison Sriram Krishnan puzzler
      4 replies 2 retweets 8 likes
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        2. Curt Fischer‏ @fischer_cr Sep 25
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          Replying to @michael_nielsen @patrickc and

          Sleep or things like it are pretty conserved in nearly all vertebrates and even most chordates. So maybe "Why do central nervous systems sleep?" is a better question/paper title.

          2 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
        3. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen Sep 25
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @fischer_cr @patrickc and

          Yes, that would be better!

          2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
        4. 5 more replies
        1. José Luis Ricón (Artir)‏ @ArtirKel Sep 25
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          Replying to @michael_nielsen @patrickc @danielgross

          So one answer you would like would be an enumeration of alternatives and how those are worse off in terms of fitness compared to sleep, I guess.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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        1. Hollis Robbins‏ @anecdotal Sep 25
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          Replying to @michael_nielsen @patrickc and

          I responded in another thread that people should read more Freud. He is relevant here too. Dreams. Crucial to our psychological well being.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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        1. David Petersen‏ @typesfaster Sep 25
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          Replying to @michael_nielsen

          Two options really. 1) Evolution couldn't find a way to accomplish the various required physiological tasks w/o sleep. 2) Sleep is a safer state than awake, because we hide while we sleep.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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