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michael_nielsen's profile
michael_nielsen
michael_nielsen
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@michael_nielsen

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michael_nielsen

@michael_nielsen

Searching for the numinous. Co-purveyor of https://quantum.country/ 

San Francisco, CA
michaelnielsen.org
Joined July 2008

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    michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen Aug 3
    • Report Tweet

    michael_nielsen Retweeted Fabian Giesen

    Wonderful observation by @rygorous. Given checkmate positions, is there a (two-player co-operative) game you can give that, when time-reversed, gives rise to plausible adversarial ordinary chess games?https://twitter.com/rygorous/status/1157676103978213377 …

    michael_nielsen added,

    Fabian Giesen @rygorous
    If you watch a chess game in reverse it's just two people being really bad at and taking extremely long to set up the board.
    Show this thread
    8:39 AM - 3 Aug 2019
    • 4 Retweets
    • 46 Likes
    • Vivitsu Maharaja Infos-Réseaux.com ᴅᴀᴠɪᴅ ᴘᴇʀᴇʟʟ ✌ Burnt Toast Igor Carron ankita verma jamal 🎃 Deniz Yuret Daniel Arias
    9 replies 4 retweets 46 likes
      1. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen Aug 3
        • Report Tweet

        For instance, it seems plausible that there might be a sense in which two mini-max agents, when time-reversed, are playing some interesting.

        3 replies 0 retweets 10 likes
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      2. Parimarjan Negi‏ @parimarjan Aug 3
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        Replying to @michael_nielsen @rygorous

        Take checkmate in N-moves chess puzzles. Then, if you allow for a few minor rule modifications, the reverse sequence of moves is (probably?) at least the optimal (fewest number of moves) sequence to get to the starting position

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      3. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen Aug 3
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        Replying to @parimarjan @rygorous

        I was just about to post almost the same idea! Yep - with some minor caveats, I suspect that's often right. It'd be interesting to know. The funny thing is, it doesn't immediately tell you what game is being played [cont]

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      2. Prathyush‏ @prathyvsh Aug 3
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        Replying to @michael_nielsen @rygorous

        This looks like a direct application of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_semantics …

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      3. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen Aug 3
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        Replying to @prathyvsh @rygorous

        What objective function and strategy is being employed in the time-reversed game? (That page looks irrelevant, but maybe I'm not seeing the discussion of time reversal.)

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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      1. Kyle Cranmer‏ @KyleCranmer Aug 3
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        Replying to @michael_nielsen @rygorous

        Mildly related, some dances (swing, capoeira, ...) are nearly invariant to time reversal. Others less so

        0 replies 1 retweet 3 likes
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      1. Fabian Giesen‏ @rygorous Aug 3
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        Replying to @michael_nielsen

        I will say that "reverse chess" becomes a lot more interesting when you start from a checkmate position and then have to play in reverse but under normal rules, i.e. not allowed to checkmate or stalemate, and may only place new pieces at old position of a piece moved last turn.

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      1. David Quintero‏ @davidsuculum Aug 3
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        Replying to @michael_nielsen @rygorous

        "The chess mysteries of Sherlock Holmes", by logician Raymond Smullyan is about that. Trying to find positions playing backwards.

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      2. Karl Rohe‏ @karlrohe Aug 3
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        Replying to @michael_nielsen @rygorous

        perhaps this is too trivial.... start from a checkmate position. 1) pieces move in reverse and 2) can introduce an opponents piece on the square it moves from. both players win if they can set up the original board. when you reverse this game, you get regular chess.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Karl Rohe‏ @karlrohe Aug 3
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        Replying to @karlrohe @michael_nielsen @rygorous

        castling becomes funny under these reverse rules... if you undo the castle, you cannot move your king or rook anymore. also, if you En Passant, you force your partner to put the "reintroduced pawn" back to the second rank on the next turn.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
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