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michael_nielsen's profile
michael_nielsen
michael_nielsen
michael_nielsen
@michael_nielsen

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michael_nielsen

@michael_nielsen

Searching for the numinous. Co-purveyor of https://quantum.country/ 

San Francisco, CA
michaelnielsen.org
Joined July 2008

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    michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen Apr 8
    • Report Tweet

    Is it possible to have a climate-friendly variant of bitcoin where miners can only operate using negatively priced electricity (surplus from renewables)? They'd then mostly have the effect of making it more economic to increase the contribution of renewables to base load.

    7:48 PM - 8 Apr 2019
    • 9 Retweets
    • 75 Likes
    • christopher bosch Lei Gong Robin Taylor Cooper Pellaton James Giammona Sumaira Zaman C S Krishna Markus Fix Misha Saul
    13 replies 9 retweets 75 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen Apr 8
        • Report Tweet

        I don't immediately see how to ensure that only negatively priced electricity (or, at minimum, renewable) could be used. There might be some clever authentication process possible, though...

        1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
        Show this thread
      3. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen Apr 8
        • Report Tweet

        *"increase the contribution of renewables to the _grid_", not base load.

        3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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      4. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen Apr 8
        • Report Tweet

        An amusing enforcement mechanism would be to require that power-generating entities participating could only be paid for power in the underlying coin - let's call it greencoin.

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        Show this thread
      5. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen Apr 8
        • Report Tweet

        Mining a block would require specifying who you bought your power from, and the price (negative!) paid - i.e., a pointer to the relevant transaction - in addition to the standard things done in mining.

        2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
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      6. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen Apr 8
        • Report Tweet

        Lots problems with this. Still, an amusing idea, and if it could be made to work would address two big problems simultaneously.

        1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
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      7. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen Apr 8
        • Report Tweet

        (Context for all this: a huge problem with renewables is that they can be difficult to turn on and turn off. Both California and Germany, which have large renewable components to power, often have to pay other regions to take power off their hands, lest it overwhelm the grid.)

        5 replies 0 retweets 11 likes
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      8. End of conversation
      1. Paul Katsen‏ @pavtalk Apr 8
        • Report Tweet
        Replying to @michael_nielsen

        Like adding a User Agent to power.

        0 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
        Thanks. Twitter will use this to make your timeline better. Undo
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      1. New conversation
      2. Avi Bryant‏ @avibryant Apr 8
        • Report Tweet
        Replying to @michael_nielsen

        You might be able to do something to authenticate the combination of time (fairly easy) and location (much harder) of the compute usage, to try to correlate it with periods where particular regions have a surplus...

        1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
      3. 1 more reply
      1. New conversation
      2. Jeremy Rubin‏ @JeremyRubin Apr 9
        • Report Tweet
        Replying to @michael_nielsen

        Bitcoin can do this already, if we just go to 100% renewable energy, bitcoin will be too ;)

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Jeremy Rubin‏ @JeremyRubin Apr 9
        • Report Tweet
        Replying to @JeremyRubin @michael_nielsen

        I think of Bitcoin as being a comoditization force; whatever it depends on it should put pressure to make it as cheap as possible. Be it energy, chips, etc. If renewable is fundamentally cheaper, bitcoin will use it and drive costs down.

        0 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
      4. End of conversation

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