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michael_nielsen's profile
michael_nielsen
michael_nielsen
michael_nielsen
@michael_nielsen

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michael_nielsen

@michael_nielsen

Searching for the numinous. Co-purveyor of https://quantum.country/ 

San Francisco, CA
michaelnielsen.org
Joined July 2008

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    1. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen Mar 2
      • Report Tweet

      Go take a look at the American Chemical Society, a not-for-profit publisher with billions in revenue. Historically they've been far more hostile to ideas like open access and open data than Elsevier & the other large for-profit publishers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Chemical_Society#Controversies …

      4 replies 5 retweets 21 likes
      Show this thread
    2. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen Mar 2
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      Many other not-for-profit society publishers aren't much better. Any serious argument that "for-profits are bad" needs to engage with this fact.

      4 replies 2 retweets 18 likes
      Show this thread
    3. John Arnold‏Verified account @JohnArnoldFndtn Mar 4
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      Replying to @michael_nielsen

      But isn’t one problem of the nonprofit publishers the fact that they are running the journal as a moneymaker to fund their other work? Of so then of course their practices don’t differ from the for profit publishers.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen Mar 4
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      Replying to @JohnArnoldFndtn

      That's pretty common, yes. And yes, their business model is often very similar to the for-profits. So much so that one common arrangement is that society journals are often published by one of the big for-profit publishers (who take a cut).

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen Mar 4
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      Replying to @michael_nielsen @JohnArnoldFndtn

      One in-principle difference is governance, e.g: not-for-profits are beholden to their membership. In practice, I'm not sure I've ever seen this make a big difference to behaviour, although I haven't watched that closely. Someone like @petersuber might know of an instance?

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    6. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen Mar 4
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      Replying to @michael_nielsen @JohnArnoldFndtn @petersuber

      Concretely: someone runs for President of a society a platform of making the society journal open access. But I don't recall an instance of this happening.

      4 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    7. simine vazire‏ @siminevazire Mar 5
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      Replying to @michael_nielsen @JohnArnoldFndtn @petersuber

      At @improvingpsych the board made sure the journal (@CollabraOA) is OA & helps run @PsyArXiv, to be consistent w/ mission & serve members.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    8. Alex Holcombe‏ @ceptional Mar 5
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      Replying to @siminevazire @michael_nielsen and

      That is really really great, but doesn't make me more optimistic about societies being very progressive, because SIPS had the unique(?) advantages of starting from scratch (no attachment to a subscription journal's revenue) and being all about openness (self-selection process).

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    9. Alex Holcombe‏ @ceptional Mar 5
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      Replying to @ceptional @siminevazire and

      Older societies thus have the financial conflict of depending on subscription revenue for present operations. Very difficult to convince them to abandon that, and very hard to wean them even if they agree. That's another reason to support the end-run open access route: preprints.

      1 reply 1 retweet 4 likes
    10. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen Mar 5
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      Replying to @ceptional @siminevazire and

      Ultimately, though, you want money to be supporting the best new models (and successor models, when those are found). And so far we haven't found a really good decentralized way to support preprints and whatever better models come after preprints.

      1 reply 1 retweet 2 likes
      michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen Mar 5
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      Replying to @michael_nielsen @ceptional and

      The arXiv budget last year was ~$2mil. The American Physical Society's journal budget was ~$40mil. In terms of the social benefit I think that's inverse from where it should be. So: what would a good market structure look like, one where arXiv naturally outcompeted the APS?

      3:01 PM - 5 Mar 2019
      • 3 Likes
      • Peter Suber Steinn Sigurdsson Alex Holcombe
      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
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        2. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen Mar 5
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          Replying to @michael_nielsen @ceptional and

          Note: I'm really reluctant to want a model where the arXiv is simply locked in by central fiat. Better models than arXiv are certainly possible, and it'd be nice to encourage the emergence of those as well.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen Mar 5
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          Replying to @michael_nielsen @ceptional and

          Excuse me: the APS's journal _revenue_ (not budget - expenses were about 30 mill, so their profit was about 5 times the arXiv's entire budget).

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
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