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michael_nielsen's profile
michael_nielsen
michael_nielsen
michael_nielsen
@michael_nielsen

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michael_nielsen

@michael_nielsen

Searching for the numinous. Co-purveyor of https://quantum.country/ 

San Francisco, CA
michaelnielsen.org
Joined July 2008

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    1. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen Feb 16
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      A very simple model (neglecting many effects, but should still work) is as follows: solar radiation comes in. Some is reflected off clouds, while some passes through the atmosphere. Some reflects immediately back from the Earth, and passes back through the atmosphere.

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    2. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen Feb 16
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      But the Earth also absorbs some of the radiation, heating the Earth. At equilibrium that energy is later re-radiated. Crucially, that's at infrared frequencies, where greenhouse gases make the atmosphere somewhat opaque

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    3. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen Feb 16
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      Intuitively, the GHGs makes the atmosphere a little like a one-way "blanket", allowing some energy through (at optical and UV frequencies), but making it harder for the infrared radiation to get back out again.

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    4. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen Feb 16
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      The net effect is for the Earth to have to heat up a little extra, thus producing a little more infrared so that at equilibrium the total amount of energy escaping is the same as the total amount of energy incident.

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    5. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen Feb 16
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      What I don't understand: the IR that's being blocked by the GHGs is energy which has already been absorbed by the Earth. So this shouldn't change the Earth's overall absorbivity, and I don't see how it could change the Earth's temperature.

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    6. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen Feb 16
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      Twitter may not be the best medium for this(??) But if someone who understands this well can point me to a good explanation, I'd appreciate it. Thanks!

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    7. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen Feb 16
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      @AndrewDohertyQu @dabacon @worrydream @patrickc Do you know?

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    8. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen Feb 16
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      I omitted the technical details, but it's this: the temperature should be set by: incoming energy flux = epsilon sigma T^4, where epsilon is the emissivity, sigma is the Stefan-Boltzmann constant, and T is the temperature.

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    9. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen Feb 16
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      Since anything absorbed by the GHGs has already been absorbed by the Earth, the absorptivity (and thus the emissivity) shouldn't be changed by the GHGs, and so I don't see how T can be changed by the GHGs.

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    10. Thomas Miconi‏ @ThomasMiconi Feb 16
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      Replying to @michael_nielsen

      Basically, the GHGs "slow down" the radiation that the earth emits back to space ("It's like a blanket!")https://scienceofdoom.com/2014/06/26/the-greenhouse-effect-explained-in-simple-terms/ …

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      michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen Feb 16
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      Replying to @ThomasMiconi

      Yes I understand that - I used the blanket analogy in the thread. But it doesn't address the question of why the emissivity in the SB relation changes.

      8:28 PM - 16 Feb 2019
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        1. New conversation
        2. Thomas Miconi‏ @ThomasMiconi Feb 16
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          Replying to @michael_nielsen

          I strongly suggest clicking the link!

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        3. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen Feb 16
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          Replying to @ThomasMiconi

          Did a quick skim - looks like a nice article, and I will do a detailed read. Thanks!

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation

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