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michael_nielsen's profile
michael_nielsen
michael_nielsen
michael_nielsen
@michael_nielsen

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michael_nielsen

@michael_nielsen

Searching for the numinous. Co-purveyor of https://quantum.country/ 

San Francisco, CA
michaelnielsen.org
Joined July 2008

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    1. Steve Randy Waldman‏ @interfluidity Feb 4
      • Report Tweet

      Steve Randy Waldman Retweeted Jason Hickel

      shocking that the narratives of neoliberal panglossians like @sapinker and @billgates may not be so trustworthy. ht @katiecannon2https://twitter.com/jasonhickel/status/1092479668844929025 …

      Steve Randy Waldman added,

      Jason HickelVerified account @jasonhickel
      Here I elaborate on the argument I made in the Guardian about global poverty, adding the detail and nuance that I was unable to include earlier, while responding to a critique (such as it is) that @sapinker posted. https://www.jasonhickel.org/blog/2019/2/3/pinker-and-global-poverty …
      4 replies 8 retweets 12 likes
    2. Alexander Berger‏ @albrgr Feb 4
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @interfluidity

      I really don't think he's being very reasonable here. I'd check out @charlesjkenny https://www.cgdev.org/blog/really-global-poverty-falling-honest … or @BrankoMilan http://glineq.blogspot.com/2017/11/the-illusion-of-degrowth-in-poor-and.html … or @MartinRavallion https://economicsandpoverty.com/read/debates-on-global-poverty-measures/ …. Don't have to be a neoliberal panglossian to acknowledge progress!

      2 replies 0 retweets 7 likes
    3. Alexander Berger‏ @albrgr Feb 4
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @albrgr @interfluidity

      .@BrankoMilan in particular seems hard to characterize as a neoliberal panglossian!

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Branko Milanovic‏ @BrankoMilan Feb 4
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      Replying to @albrgr @interfluidity

      You bet!

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    5. Steve Randy Waldman‏ @interfluidity Feb 4
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @BrankoMilan @albrgr

      i never would characterize @BrankoMilan as a neoliberal panglossian. and no one here is arguing with his measures of change during the recent past. no one here is arguing for any form of “degrowth”. @BrankoMilan is not making the same case as @sapinker or @BillGates i think.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    6. Alexander Berger‏ @albrgr Feb 4
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @interfluidity @BrankoMilan and

      I read @BrankoMilan as far closer to Pinker or Gates than Hickel (e.g., in comfortably using old data, tho he can speak for himself). While I think there is much to take issue with in the panglossian interpretation, I think Hickel's arguments are grossly overreaching.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    7. Steve Randy Waldman‏ @interfluidity Feb 4
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @albrgr @BrankoMilan and

      he’ll speak for himself if he wants! but i think it’s a stretch to draw him into this debate on either side until he does. @BrankoMilan makes detailed observations about changes in the global income distribution. but this is a debate about how we should evaluate the recent period

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Steve Randy Waldman‏ @interfluidity Feb 4
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @interfluidity @albrgr and

      with respect to policy and absolute poverty: are we doing so well we shouldn’t risk things by shaking things up at ameliorating global poverty, are doing so poorly that we should take our performance as an argument for change? much of that debate turns not on any empirical

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    9. Steve Randy Waldman‏ @interfluidity Feb 4
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @interfluidity @albrgr and

      dispute, but over questions of what level corresponds to “success” and detailed questions of the distribution of policy and progress (ie should China count as a success for the Western liberal capitalist order?)

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    10. Alexander Berger‏ @albrgr Feb 4
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @interfluidity @BrankoMilan

      Agree that those are much more legitimate debates! But Hickel makes many spurious factual claims in presenting that case. I would update your/his direction if @BrankoMilan endorsed the claims highlighted in these pictures.pic.twitter.com/gfZY7LXhk7

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen Feb 4
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @albrgr @interfluidity @BrankoMilan

      I also found it irritating that Hickel seems to mostly dismiss the drop in extreme poverty (and the other drops) as unimportant. For someone who claims to be speaking for the poor, he doesn't seem to much care. (Still, there were some useful items in that piece.)

      2:07 PM - 4 Feb 2019
      • 2 Likes
      • Max Gurewitz Alexander Berger
      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Steve Randy Waldman‏ @interfluidity Feb 4
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @michael_nielsen @albrgr @BrankoMilan

          Fair enough! But that gets to the core dispute: what should count as success, and given what counts as success, what should be done. I favor a global UBI at ~$100/month paid unilaterally by developed countries. if remedying $1.90 poverty is an important goal, might that not make

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. Steve Randy Waldman‏ @interfluidity Feb 4
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @interfluidity @michael_nielsen and

          more sense than a mere conservatism of status quo (neo)liberalism? perhaps even @BillGates and @sapinker would agree, who knows? but if there is more to their view than doing what we do (plus their benighted philanthropy) is basically the right plan, i wish they’d tell us that.

          0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        4. End of conversation

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