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michael_nielsen's profile
michael_nielsen
michael_nielsen
michael_nielsen
@michael_nielsen

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michael_nielsen

@michael_nielsen

Searching for the numinous. Co-purveyor of https://quantum.country/ 

San Francisco, CA
michaelnielsen.org
Joined July 2008

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    1. Erik Torenberg‏Verified account @eriktorenberg 28 Dec 2018
      • Report Tweet

      Erik Torenberg Retweeted Erik Torenberg

      Still searching for the best arguments *against* optimizing for sustainable economic growth (factoring in environment + human rights) + more markets broadly, because that’s what I try to facilitate at work, + want to do so w/ eyes wide open. Speak now or forever hold your peace.https://twitter.com/eriktorenberg/status/1058843792223100928 …

      Erik Torenberg added,

      Erik TorenbergVerified account @eriktorenberg
      The more you believe in the societal benefits of economic growth, the more meaning (& respect) you’ll find in work that boosts growth but doesn’t feel as directly rewarding—or look as noble—as, say, teaching (e.g. most finance, b2b SaaS, some crypto speculation). And vice versa.
      Show this thread
      12 replies 0 retweets 22 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Erik Torenberg‏Verified account @eriktorenberg 28 Dec 2018
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      There's a niche strand of thought that says markets are inherently alienating/violence-enducing in some way, although I haven't heard a compelling argument in that direction. If anyone has one, pls drop it here.

      7 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      Show this thread
    3. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen 28 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @eriktorenberg

      I thought the standard argument was social capital based. If lawnmowers are expensive, you borrow one from your neighbours, building community, lessening alienation. If productivity growth brings the price down, you go buy your own. Etc.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    4. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen 28 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @michael_nielsen @eriktorenberg

      TBC, I'm not necessarily endorsing this argument. But I think it (and many, many variants) are very interesting.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen 28 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @michael_nielsen @eriktorenberg

      Peer-produced goods (like open source software) fit into this in an interesting variation: they sit to some extent outside conventional measures of economic growth, but (arguably) build community and lessen alienation more than closed-source. (Again, not an endorsement.)

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    6. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen 28 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @michael_nielsen @eriktorenberg

      "Barn-raising: good for community, but not so great for economic growth" is a common theme in many of these. I've been coy about what I think, but: I do believe there's a genuine and strong tension here.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    7. Erik Torenberg‏Verified account @eriktorenberg 28 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @michael_nielsen

      Erik Torenberg Retweeted Erik Torenberg

      This is more radical IMO. This specific strand of thought, as far as I understand it, is against hierarchies b/c they debase relationships and/or remove us from harmony w/ nature & ourselves (maybe?) Markets -- & money broadly-- codify those hierarchies.https://twitter.com/eriktorenberg/status/1078810326483853312 …

      Erik Torenberg added,

      Erik TorenbergVerified account @eriktorenberg
      @MikiKashtan has a fascinating book and some talks on the topic that I'm excited to fully understand. talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mErG7mSzwkc … book: https://www.amazon.com/Reweaving-Our-Human-Fabric-Nonviolent-ebook/dp/B00TQ564J6 …
      Show this thread
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen 28 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @eriktorenberg

      Ah, right. I've come into contact with that argument a bit. I think both Durkheim (who I haven't read seriously) and Illich (who I have) make related arguments. Illich is deeply suspicious of institutions in general. The essential idea seems to be that institutions require

      5:10 PM - 28 Dec 2018
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      • Erik Torenberg
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        1. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen 28 Dec 2018
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @michael_nielsen @eriktorenberg

          systems; those systems inherently dehumanize (since they remove choice and personalization). Basically, anything scalable is alienating. Interesting to think about in the context of VC...

          2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
        2. Erik Torenberg‏Verified account @eriktorenberg 28 Dec 2018
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          Replying to @michael_nielsen

          and if, for these folks, personalization at scale is either a contradiction in terms or besides the point.

          0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
          3. End of conversation

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