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michael_nielsen's profile
michael_nielsen
michael_nielsen
michael_nielsen
@michael_nielsen

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michael_nielsen

@michael_nielsen

Searching for the numinous. Co-purveyor of https://quantum.country/ 

San Francisco, CA
michaelnielsen.org
Joined July 2008

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    1. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen 3 Oct 2018
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      The Nobel Prize is an interesting event. The recipients go from being venerated by a few hundred or thousand of their peers to being celebrities. For the rest of their life they're often introduced as a "Nobel Prizewinner", their opinion is sought by media & the famous, etc.

      8 replies 9 retweets 80 likes
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    2. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen 3 Oct 2018
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      Interesting in part because there's many almost-Nobelists - people who reasonably could have been given a Prize, but didn't get it because of politics, bad luck, the rule that only 3 people can be given the Prize, etc.

      3 replies 3 retweets 61 likes
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    3. 𝔊𝔴𝔢𝔯𝔫‏ @gwern 3 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @michael_nielsen

      One reason I always bristle when I see some study or another on Nobelists as a measure of great scientific accomplishment. How can one read all the errors and omissions (eg https://www.nature.com/news/close-but-no-nobel-the-scientists-who-never-won-1.20781 … ) and take it as the ne plus ultra? So many better measures. Like citation counts.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    4. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen 3 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @gwern

      Evidence that citation counts are a better measure? (That's a very unexpected assertion from my point of view.)

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. 𝔊𝔴𝔢𝔯𝔫‏ @gwern 3 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @michael_nielsen

      If you look at the list of bad Nobels, think about the censoring from deaths, the many-nominated-but-not-winners etc, a large fractions of Nobels should've been awarded to other people. Plus the sampling error is *massive* due small n: Most 'cells' are just empty. Terrible.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen 3 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @gwern

      Strange, from my point of view. I looked in depth at the lists recently, and was surprised by how good the discovery / Laureate selection was, especially the recent prizes in Physics (where I can best judge). There are errors, but I thought it was surprisingly good.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. 𝔊𝔴𝔢𝔯𝔫‏ @gwern 3 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @michael_nielsen

      You might reconsider if you were reminded of everyone who died and could see the nomination lists. Anyway, any measurement which returns False for 999,999 out of 1 million scientists and a dubious True for the last datapoint, is not a good measurement compared to continuous ones

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen 3 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @gwern

      Well, maybe. But the social context of physics is that people think a _lot_ about this in advance. So, yes, I'm aware of a lot of the people who missed out because they died, and while nominations aren't exactly public, there's a lot of gossip. The committee does a good job.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen 3 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @michael_nielsen @gwern

      Certainly, citations simply _aren't_ a good measure. It's pretty standard on hiring committees to have discussions of highly-cited duds, and low-cited gems. Citations are certainly _interesting_ to consider, but high (or low) citation in itself means nothing.

      8:58 PM - 3 Oct 2018
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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        2. 𝔊𝔴𝔢𝔯𝔫‏ @gwern 3 Oct 2018
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          Replying to @michael_nielsen

          Citations are better simply because they are reasonably correlated with underlying merit and they are not a almost zero-information binary measure. If you draw a sample of 10k scientists, you will hardly ever get a single Nobelist; their citation-counts will still be useful.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. 𝔊𝔴𝔢𝔯𝔫‏ @gwern 3 Oct 2018
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          Replying to @gwern @michael_nielsen

          Or to reverse it: how many Nobel Prizes have been awarded for work that had (up until then) below-average citation counts?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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