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michael_nielsen's profile
michael_nielsen
michael_nielsen
michael_nielsen
@michael_nielsen

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michael_nielsen

@michael_nielsen

Searching for the numinous. Co-purveyor of https://quantum.country/ 

San Francisco, CA
michaelnielsen.org
Joined July 2008

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    1. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen 14 Sep 2018
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @michael_nielsen @C4COMPUTATION and

      Not just because of the connection to UI design, of course! But rather his essay describes a way of understanding story, and how we understand the world.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    2. Anna Gát  ✨‏ @TheAnnaGat 14 Sep 2018
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      Replying to @michael_nielsen @C4COMPUTATION @smc90

      This is marvelous. Ofc beyond fiction there's a sinister tinge to it: how immensely flexible our minds are to enter, accept and internalise any story that looks coherent - that seems to provide info on how to lead out lives and what to think - and then exist in it.

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    3. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen 14 Sep 2018
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      Replying to @TheAnnaGat @C4COMPUTATION @smc90

      One of the things I took from that Tolkien essay is some of the difference between story & myth. It's exaggerated and too blunt, but roughly: a culture has a plethora of stories; myths, by contrast, have cultures.

      4 replies 4 retweets 16 likes
    4. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen 14 Sep 2018
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      Replying to @michael_nielsen @TheAnnaGat and

      And much of the detailed difference between story and myth lies in this quality of subcreation. (Reading Tolkien on his beloved Christianity and Catholicism reinforces this point, I believe.)

      3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Anna Gát  ✨‏ @TheAnnaGat 14 Sep 2018
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      Replying to @michael_nielsen @C4COMPUTATION @smc90

      You mean that every generation can add to a story - but every generation *reinterprets* myth as it is? This would make Hamlet a myth.

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    6. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen 14 Sep 2018
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      Replying to @TheAnnaGat @C4COMPUTATION @smc90

      Something like that. I think the idea is sufficiently interesting & generative that I don't _want_ to reduce it to a tweet, or a single essay. But, yes, to a large extent our culture has been made by Hamlet (or by the Bible, or Star Wars, etc).

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    7. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen 14 Sep 2018
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      Replying to @michael_nielsen @TheAnnaGat and

      One of my favourite ways of seeing tLoTR movies actually - both Tolkien and Jackson were telling stories based on the same underlying myth :-). Not true, of course, but I like the idea!

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Anna Gát  ✨‏ @TheAnnaGat 14 Sep 2018
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      Replying to @michael_nielsen @C4COMPUTATION @smc90

      What I like re your picking the Balrog part is that I think that's the deepest, core (pun) part of the whole thing. Ofc Tolkien uses archetypes etc etc but all other parts can be in a way interpreted as "cultural" a bit. Not that part -- that's just *human*.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    9. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen 14 Sep 2018
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      Replying to @TheAnnaGat @C4COMPUTATION @smc90

      A fact I've never really understood: the Balrog, Sauron, Saruman, and Gandalf are really all peers (of the Maia caste). It bugs me a bit that they seem so apart in form.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    10. Jessica Flack‏ @C4COMPUTATION 14 Sep 2018
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      Replying to @michael_nielsen @TheAnnaGat @smc90

      If I remember correctly the Maia rarely reveal or show their true form but instead take shapes or forms, and it is these shapes that can be destroyed.

      2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
      michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen 14 Sep 2018
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      Replying to @C4COMPUTATION @TheAnnaGat @smc90

      It just seemed strange to me that the Balrog's form was so different. Sauron's earlier forms were recognizably similar to Gandalf and Saruman; his later incarnation was a natural response to events. The Balrog seems a little weird, like Tolkien's version of monster-of-the-week

      9:17 PM - 14 Sep 2018
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        2. Anna Gát  ✨‏ @TheAnnaGat 14 Sep 2018
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          Replying to @michael_nielsen @C4COMPUTATION @smc90

          But isn't Balrog like an earlier version of the whole caste? Am I too Freudian here hehe?

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen 14 Sep 2018
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          Replying to @TheAnnaGat @C4COMPUTATION @smc90

          They were all created at the same time, during the Music of the Ainur, prior to the creation of the world: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ainulindal%C3%AB … (Wow, I remember this all way too well from childhood!)

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        2. Jessica Flack‏ @C4COMPUTATION 14 Sep 2018
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          Replying to @michael_nielsen @TheAnnaGat @smc90

          Well, there are also Tom Bombadil, Shelob and Ungoliant, etc. Some people think Ungoliant was a Maia and not just corrupted by Melkor. I like that there are sub themes for us to explore without too much direction from Tolkien.

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        3. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen 14 Sep 2018
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          Replying to @C4COMPUTATION @TheAnnaGat @smc90

          Is it made clear that Tom Bombadil and Ungoliant were Maia? I guess the timelines suggest it - both predate the Children of Illuvatar, IIRC, and they're not animals, leaving the Maia and Valar as the only possibilities.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
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