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michael_nielsen

@michael_nielsen

Searching for the numinous @YCombinator Research

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michaelnielsen.org
Joined July 2008

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    michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen 12 Jul 2018

    This quote from Bruce Charlton reminds me how many of my scientific colleagues have problems they'd really like to address, but instead spend their careers working on what they believe is fundable:pic.twitter.com/Nqqds4sTeP

    10:51 PM - 12 Jul 2018
    • 94 Retweets
    • 255 Likes
    • Massoud Hosseinali Dmitry Zinoviev Alexis Hernández Demonic Bitch Manish Gupta Federico Pistono 🚀⚡️ Adam Alonzi Aliakbar Akbaritabar (Ali) Jodoo Shi
    17 replies 94 retweets 255 likes
      1. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen 12 Jul 2018

        I think the quote is too cynical, BTW. But it's interesting to ponder the truth.

        0 replies 0 retweets 18 likes
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      2.  🤖 Sonya Mann  🎀‏Verified account @sonyaellenmann 12 Jul 2018
        Replying to @michael_nielsen

        This is true of almost everything I think. Your theoretical best work is different from the work that others care to pay for

        1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
      3. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen 12 Jul 2018
        Replying to @sonyaellenmann

        Yes. The quote comes from a book Charlton wrote. Your comment applies to much of the book, and I wish he'd address it more directly. People are often careerist for very good reasons (to eat, have shelter etc). The tradeoff between careerism and idealism is difficult to manage.

        4 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
      4. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen 12 Jul 2018
        Replying to @michael_nielsen @sonyaellenmann

        That said, something I really like about the book is how forthrightly he sets out some of the consequences of careerism.

        0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
      5. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Douglas Edwards‏ @SebastosPublius 13 Jul 2018
        Replying to @michael_nielsen @neurograce

        Einstein commented even more scathingly on careerism in science:http://dedicto.com/wordpress1/frank-1949-einsteins-philosophy-of-science/#c …

        2 replies 1 retweet 5 likes
      3. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen 13 Jul 2018
        Replying to @SebastosPublius @neurograce

        michael_nielsen Retweeted michael_nielsen

        See also my preceding tweet, for another comment by Einstein in a similar vein:https://twitter.com/michael_nielsen/status/1017643259017850880 …

        michael_nielsen added,

        michael_nielsen @michael_nielsen
        Einstein, on the pursuit of science: http://www.site.uottawa.ca/~yymao/misc/Einstein_PlanckBirthday.html … pic.twitter.com/ZW29NLLdzs
        0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
      4. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. John Carlos Baez‏ @johncarlosbaez 13 Jul 2018
        Replying to @michael_nielsen

        If there are such people, I must automatically avoid them like poop on the sidewalk.

        1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
      3. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen 13 Jul 2018
        Replying to @johncarlosbaez

        I've noticed it's relatively uncommon in mathematics. I attribute this to the fact people feel less pressure to get grants. I know physicists who've spent their entire career wanting to work on quantum foundations, for instance, but who do it rarely, since it's "not fundable".

        1 reply 0 retweets 7 likes
      4. John Carlos Baez‏ @johncarlosbaez 13 Jul 2018
        Replying to @michael_nielsen

        Mathematicians feel less pressure to get grants because there are so few grants to be gotten that it's not a mark of shame not to get many! We earn our living by humbly teaching teenagers calculus; then we think about what we want. A case in point: me.

        2 replies 0 retweets 9 likes
      5. John S. Lee‏ @geomphys 14 Jul 2018
        Replying to @johncarlosbaez @michael_nielsen

        Unfortunately it is not necessarily the same case in every institution. In some institutions, math is expected to be as productive as other lab sciences in bringing grants and when it doesn't happen (and it doesn't as John explained), we are shamed for not doing so. More than ...

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      6. John S. Lee‏ @geomphys 14 Jul 2018
        Replying to @geomphys @johncarlosbaez @michael_nielsen

        shaming, it affect one's tenure, promotion, and a raise (if there is one).

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      7. John Carlos Baez‏ @johncarlosbaez 14 Jul 2018
        Replying to @geomphys @michael_nielsen

        It's crucial for some politically astute people in the math department to talk to administrators and explain how it's different from the lab sciences. At my university they've done this. It takes work, but it's worth it.

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      8. John S. Lee‏ @geomphys 14 Jul 2018
        Replying to @johncarlosbaez @michael_nielsen

        It's nice that it worked out at UCR. I would give credit to your administrators also because they listened to and understood you. They must value math and respect mathematicians. Otherwise it won't happen. It really takes more than political astuteness.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      9. End of conversation
      1. Bill Seitz‏ @BillSeitz 13 Jul 2018
        Replying to @michael_nielsen

        Think of all the software people would like to build, if they didn't need to focus on paying rent.

        0 replies 1 retweet 4 likes
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      1. Ben Hambrecht‏ @BenHambrecht 13 Jul 2018
        Replying to @michael_nielsen

        so... fundable is the new fundamental?

        0 replies 1 retweet 3 likes
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      1. Bill Seitz‏ @BillSeitz 13 Jul 2018
        Replying to @michael_nielsen

        Universal Basic Project Funding

        0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
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      1. Maletic Research‏ @maleticresearch 13 Jul 2018
        Replying to @michael_nielsen @skdh

        Scientific funding can and must be changed&disrupted in this age that provides ample ability to do so. 20th Century Sci funding model is archaic, obsolete and no-wonder-corrupt. We need daring individuals and groups to at least give it a try #CrowdFundedScience

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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      1. Alexey Guzey‏ @alexeyguzey 1 Oct 2018
        Replying to @michael_nielsen

        maybe exists intersection between problems you colleagues would like to address and @open_phil's https://www.openphilanthropy.org/focus/scientific-research … ?

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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      2. Michael Merrifield‏ @AstroMikeMerri 13 Jul 2018
        Replying to @michael_nielsen @mcnees

        But it simply isn’t true. Every successful scientist I know maintains a portfolio that balances truly speculative punts and “safe” work that brings in a steady stream of incremental results when the punts don’t pay off (which, pretty much by definition, is how most come out).

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Robert McNees‏ @mcnees 13 Jul 2018
        Replying to @AstroMikeMerri @michael_nielsen

        The RT was for Michael’s comment, which I think does apply for more than a few scientists I know, though I’m sure it varies a lot from field to field.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. End of conversation

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