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very offline potat
very offline potat
very offline potat
@metapotat

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very offline potat

@metapotat

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    1. simpolism‏ @simpolism 12 Dec 2019
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      Habermas makes a great argument in "Legitimation Crisis" (which I plan to post about later) that universalist ethics (specifically in the form of "universalist utilitarianism" which leads to bourgeois individualism via formal law) stems from the universality of economic exchange.

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    2. simpolism‏ @simpolism 12 Dec 2019
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      & that this particular form of moral unreflectiveness about universalism is essential to the state for retaining mass political legitimacy and furthering economic goals.

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    3. very offline potat‏ @metapotat 12 Dec 2019
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      hmm, so that the state is co-opting the universality & legitimacy of exchange, and the institutions which support it, in order to grant legitimacy to other institutions and state organs?

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    4. very offline potat‏ @metapotat 12 Dec 2019
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      e.g. basic private property laws feel natural to us, so we swallow state enforcement. but when people rebel against, e.g., the state granting monopolies or enforcing their preferred moral codes, the state and it's supporters can complain about 'respect for the rule of law'

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    5. simpolism‏ @simpolism 12 Dec 2019
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      it's sort of the other way around, according to Habermas, in that the entire function of the state is to preserve the "unequal" distribution of wealth while also granting enough handouts to maintain legitimate. this is only a rough summary of his argument thoo

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    6. simpolism‏ @simpolism 12 Dec 2019
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      also I feel this will be discussed in more detail later in the book, so I gotta keep reading before I can give a satisfying answer

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    7. very offline potat‏ @metapotat 12 Dec 2019
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      the institutional econ guys talk about something related to this, especially Acemoglu & Robinson, and North & Weingast. that gov'ts gain legitimacy with handouts to the supporting coalition.

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    8. very offline potat‏ @metapotat 12 Dec 2019
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      but as the supporting coalition becomes larger and more undifferentiated, the handouts start looking more and more like public goods that all sides benefit from: police, roads, infrastructure, etc.

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    9. very offline potat‏ @metapotat 12 Dec 2019
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      they aren't thinking about universalism per se, just precursors to the modern state and econ development, but it all seems tied up together

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    10. simpolism‏ @simpolism 12 Dec 2019
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      Yes! Habermas would call this the effective exercise of state "rationality", i.e. investing correctly as so to avoid crises, and that the failure of rationality is what leads to a legitimacy crisis (as what we're seeing today), which calls into question the state as a whole.

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      very offline potat‏ @metapotat 12 Dec 2019
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      hmm, how Habermas connects everything back to universalism is unclear to me. is it just an orthogonal phenomenon that gives the state another source of legitimacy? or is it tied in with these dynamics?

      1:11 PM - 12 Dec 2019
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        1. simpolism‏ @simpolism 12 Dec 2019
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          Universalism is a "component of cultural tradition" of bourgeois worldviews that both aligns with and chafes against the needs for state maintenance of global capitalistic exchange, a "residue" of (pre?) enlightenment thinking. It's not orthogonal, but not causally linked either.

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