Matt StollerGeverifieerd account

We can argue all day about whether these policies are social democratic or socialist. But the fact of the matter remains that the Democratic nominee in 2016 said they were pie-in-the-sky and the leadership in Congress says they’re “too far left”. These are basic policies that

other countries take for granted. And talking about the fact that the Democratic Party tried to get some of these policies passed in the past, like in 1978 or in 1944, highlights just how far to the right the party leadership has moved in the past 30+ years.

You might consider why those 'other countries' are going fascist too. This focus on social welfare above political economy is why the Democratic Party collapsed.

It’s a return to the norm. The post-WW2 era was great for a while, but the problems of capitalism have crept back into society. Capitalism leads to inequality, which breeds resentment, which creates the perfect atmosphere for demagogues to swoop in and

If that's true (and it's not), then why are you advocating for universal health care and affordable housing? Why not just ownership of the means of production? Why are you play-acting liberal instead of advocating for what you want?

The entire 2008 Democratic primary debate was about universal health care. Obama released a plan on free community college. CAP just released a plan called Medicare plus. This isn't hard.

Obama had a super majority in Congress and gave us a GOP healthcare plan. You still believe he wanted Universal Healthcare? Don’t be fooled. It isn’t that hard to see he was lying about fighting for it.

I know. I said this AT THE TIME not ten years later.

But you have the advantage of hindsight now and you’re still acting like party leaders were fighting for universal healthcare when all they were doing was lying about it to gain supporters.

There was a fight within the party. The liberals lost. You are a liberal who doesn't want to acknowledge the fight happened because it's too embarrassing to point the finger at Obama. So instead of doing that you claim socialism. That's just vanity.

I have no problem whatsoever about pointing the finger at Obama here. He sold us a bill of goods on the campaign trail and then didn’t keep his promise. Not sure why you think I’d be embarrassed to say that. I’m not an Obama stan.

Also, I’m not a liberal. I’m a leftist. There’s a hard difference between the 2.

Right. There’s no reason to alter a discourse that forces us to bend over backward to justify liberal measures and explain why they aren’t too big gov or intrusions on market freedom. Let’s continue drawing a hard line from socialism just to make minor improvements a hassle.

But you aren't socialists! Socialists want to nationalize banks, not break them up!

1. I do want to nationalize banks. 2. Socialism existed before Marx and Lenin. 3. The question wasn’t is DSA socialist but is there a good reason to use the term much more loosely

Well @Ocasio2018 had break up the banks on her website, and most DSA members don't, so that's what I'm going off.