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mathias's profile
Mathias Bynens
Mathias Bynens
Mathias Bynens
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@mathias

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Mathias BynensVerified account

@mathias

I work on @ChromeDevTools & @v8js at Google and on ECMAScript through TC39. ♥ JavaScript, HTML, CSS, HTTP, performance, security, Bash, Unicode, i18n, macOS.

Munich, Germany
mths.be
Joined January 2007

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    1. Daniel Ehrenberg‏ @littledan 6 Dec 2017
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      Replying to @littledan @robpalmer2 and

      Java actually has similar semantics to JS here--you can dynamically load a class which subclasses another class, and forces the JVM to deoptimize unchecked inline calls to particular concrete methods. Again, like going back and making the method virtual. I guess it comes up less.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    2. Natalie Silvanovich‏ @natashenka 6 Dec 2017
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      Replying to @littledan @robpalmer2 and

      What helps in Java is that class members and methods can't change once the class is created. You don't have to worry that, say, an object stops being a subclass of an object in the middle of a method call

      1 reply 1 retweet 3 likes
    3. Daniel Ehrenberg‏ @littledan 6 Dec 2017
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      Replying to @natashenka @robpalmer2 and

      Yes, JS is "worse" in this sense. The ease of implicitly creating new hidden classes leads JS JITs to often have an open world assumption when examining the class hierarchy, whereas Java JITs can be more comfortable with a closed world assumption and fewer checks.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    4. Allen Wirfs-Brock‏ @awbjs 6 Dec 2017
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      Replying to @littledan @natashenka and

      (Good morning) JS much worse than Java. But, the whole basis of modern JS engines (harkening back to Self) is that most programs locally behave as if closed world & this condition is detectable via runtime analysis and then optimized accordingly.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    5. Toon Verwaest‏ @tverwaes 7 Dec 2017
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      Replying to @awbjs @littledan and

      This is very bad for startup; and with frameworks polymorphism Ian often so bad that the optimizing compiler is out of the picture altogether. Designing relying on the optimizing compiler is not what you should do for a language where startup performance is vital

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    6. Allen Wirfs-Brock‏ @awbjs 7 Dec 2017
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      Replying to @tverwaes @littledan and

      Langauge implementors have to implement (hopefully well) the language they are given, not that language they wish they were given. The fundamental dynamic nature of JS was set in stone over 20 years ago.

      1 reply 1 retweet 2 likes
    7. Toon Verwaest‏ @tverwaes 7 Dec 2017
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      Replying to @awbjs @littledan and

      That nature is less problematic than features that were added much later unfortunately. E.g. species and toStringTag

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    8. Allen Wirfs-Brock‏ @awbjs 7 Dec 2017
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      Replying to @tverwaes @littledan and

      Oh really? An extra lookup in what is largely a debug method and a extra, outside of loop, lookup in array functions are more problematic then unconstrained mutability of the prototype chain?

      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Yang Guo (郭扬)‏ @hashseed 7 Dec 2017
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      Replying to @awbjs @tverwaes and

      So why is it so hard to admit that some ES6 features were designed with only hypothetical use cases in mind?

      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
    10. Allen Wirfs-Brock‏ @awbjs 7 Dec 2017
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      Replying to @hashseed @tverwaes and

      Use cases for new language features are always hypothetical until actually available in the languages. Part of the job of a language designer is to identify unsupported use cases and figure out how to support them. Experience with other langs is one source.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Mathias Bynens‏Verified account @mathias 7 Dec 2017
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      Replying to @awbjs @hashseed and

      I disagree. By working with the community we can most definitely get data on developer demand for particular features.

      2:39 PM - 7 Dec 2017
      • 7 Likes
      • Sindre Sorhus Tom Schuster Yang Guo (郭扬) Sathya Gunasekaran Benedikt Meurer Henry Daniel Ehrenberg
      1 reply 0 retweets 7 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Allen Wirfs-Brock‏ @awbjs 7 Dec 2017
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          Replying to @mathias @hashseed and

          sure, but the community doesn’t necessarily think through 2nd/3rd requirements. EG, may ask for subclass able built-ins but haven’t thought about all the details.

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Daniel Ehrenberg‏ @littledan 8 Dec 2017
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          Replying to @awbjs @mathias and

          It's true, TC39 has to think through the detailed edge cases and implications if others don't raise the issues. But then, we can follow up with both the JS community and implementers to ask if those are good decisions for them, and iterate if needed.

          1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
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