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marcan42's profile
Hector Martin
Hector Martin
Hector Martin
@marcan42

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Hector Martin

@marcan42

If it ain't broke, I'll fix it! I'm porting Linux to Apple Silicon Macs at @AsahiLinux. http://patreon.com/marcan  | http://github.com/sponsors/marcan 

Tokyo, Japan
marcan.st
Joined May 2009

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    Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 27 Jan 2018
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    Fun fact: people like to say that unlike Flash memory, RAM can be read or written to one byte at a time, but that's a lie. A typical DIMM's memory array can only be addressed in 64KiB blocks! Writing one byte means reading 64K, modifying one byte, and writing 64K! (1/n)

    3:06 AM - 27 Jan 2018
    • 118 Retweets
    • 299 Likes
    • Logger.info(%{user: :hauleth}) Markus Burns Sampo Hyvärinen Néstor&Mirian Philippe Teuwen Tejas Upmanyu Constantin Yuki Daniel Blanco
    7 replies 118 retweets 299 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 27 Jan 2018
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        In fact, *reading* is a destructive operation in RAM. Reading one byte means reading 64K (which destroys it), then writing back the 64K untouched! However, the RAM chips perform this read-write operation when directed, so the 64K doesn't have to go out via the bus and back. (2/n)

        3 replies 10 retweets 41 likes
        Show this thread
      3. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 27 Jan 2018
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        The difference is that RAM doesn't wear out, so nobody cares that it works this way. The RAM can also combine a long sequence of reads or writes, sequential or scattered, within one page, into one read, a sequence of I/Os, and a write back to the array. (3/n)

        3 replies 6 retweets 34 likes
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      4. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 27 Jan 2018
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        So next time someone tells you "RAM can be accessed at a granularity of one bit", remember that's not really true. It actually uses huge pages just like Flash, which is fundamental when memory is organized as a big 2D array (the page size is one dimension). (4/4)

        5 replies 7 retweets 50 likes
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      5. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 27 Jan 2018
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        Addendum: I meant 64 kibibits (64 Kibits or 64Kib) in my original tweet, not 64 kibibytes. It's usually something like 8 bits per chip × 8 chips = 64 bits for a whole DIMM, and pages (rows) are 1024 addresses within each bank, so 65536 bits.

        3 replies 2 retweets 33 likes
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      6. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Paweł Lasek‏ @pawel_lasek 27 Jan 2018
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        Replying to @marcan42

        64 kB, not 64bits, +/- some protocol issues?

        3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Steve‏ @littlesteve 27 Jan 2018
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        Replying to @pawel_lasek @marcan42

        KiB, KibiByte. RAM is addressed base2 not base10

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Christian Vogel  🏡 🦠‏ @vogelchr 27 Jan 2018
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        Replying to @marcan42 @ico_TC

        Of course the actual numbers will be different for a lot of chips. But to get an idea about the complex architecture, one just has to look at a RAM chip datasheet, specifically the block diagram 🧐… https://www.micron.com/products/datasheets/3d323c4d-6bc7-4193-908d-e99ad746aa4e …pic.twitter.com/JLpox16lKI

        2 replies 15 retweets 50 likes
      3. Christian Vogel  🏡 🦠‏ @vogelchr 27 Jan 2018
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        Replying to @vogelchr @marcan42 @ico_TC

        This chip uses 4096 sense amps, and has a 4 bit output… a 64 bit read will be distributed over 16 chips and will indeed require 65536 individual bits to be read/written back in parallel.

        1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
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      2. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker 27 Jan 2018
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        Replying to @marcan42 @ico_TC

        Also to clarify this is DRAM. With SRAM you really can address individual units.

        1 reply 0 retweets 10 likes
      3. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 27 Jan 2018
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        Replying to @RichFelker @ico_TC

        Correct. You pay 6 transistors per cell for that privilege (or 4 with some topologies).

        0 replies 0 retweets 13 likes
      4. End of conversation

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