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marcan42's profile
Hector Martin
Hector Martin
Hector Martin
@marcan42

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Hector Martin

@marcan42

If it ain't broke, I'll fix it! I'm porting Linux to Apple Silicon Macs at @AsahiLinux. http://patreon.com/marcan  | http://github.com/sponsors/marcan 

Tokyo, Japan
marcan.st
Joined May 2009

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    1. Jim T‏ @Rcomian 25 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @marcan42

      Yes there's downsides to just increasing blocksize which is why it's not been done and other options are being looked at. In the meantime it *is* an electronic cash. With challenges, but it's there. Not a failure (yet). Or stupid.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    2. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 25 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Rcomian

      Cash doesn't have a $30 transaction fee. Right *now*, all Bitcoin is is the world's most expensive checking account modality, and a vehicle for speculators.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Jim T‏ @Rcomian 25 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @marcan42

      You're declaring it a failure whilst it's in trouble and before it's failed (with fixes in pipeline). You're declaring it stupid for not having magical properties no-one knows how to achieve. Current problems are temporary. But you can still use it.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    4. Jim T‏ @Rcomian 25 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Rcomian @marcan42

      Incidentally, can you reference that O(n3) scaling thing, I've not heard that one before and it doesn't seem obvious to me.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 25 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Rcomian

      There are N people in the network. As N grows, each individual person also has more potential people to transact with - transactions would be O(N²). Since each person has a copy of all transaction history, the network requires O(N³) storage overall.

      4 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Jim T‏ @Rcomian 25 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @marcan42

      Ah, so N isn't the size of the block or the storage needed because the block is bigger. It's the scaling factor of transaction counts as networks in general get bigger. So every network scales by O(n3)?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 25 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Rcomian

      No, the problem here is requiring everyone to have the entire transaction history stored locally. I'm oversimplifying of course, but I'm saying overall throughput scales with O(n²) (and thus individual bandwidth with O(n).

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Jim T‏ @Rcomian 25 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @marcan42

      Yeah this checks out for me, I want to use bitcoin more, but I need more people available to trade bitcoin with. If we double the number of people on the network we more than double transaction potential (handshaking problem).

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Jim T‏ @Rcomian 25 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Rcomian @marcan42

      But if we just want to double the number of *transactions* supported, naively doubling the blocksize achieves this.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Jim T‏ @Rcomian 25 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Rcomian @marcan42

      Anyway, this is progress. Is your point that bitcoin is stupid *because* everyone has to store all the transactions?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 25 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Rcomian

      That was an example of another inherent problem with the network. Another is the O(n²) bandwidth requirement for the same reason (must receive all transactions, not just your own) which blocksize doubling can't fix.

      6:42 AM - 25 Jan 2018
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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        2. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 25 Jan 2018
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          Replying to @marcan42 @Rcomian

          Basuically what i'm saying is the scaling properties are fundamentally broken; no constant improvement by using more efficient encodings or increasing sizes or what have you will fix it, and I do not believe a deep fundamental change would achieve consensus and work in practice.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 25 Jan 2018
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          Replying to @marcan42 @Rcomian

          Basically, you need a better altcoin with some deep fundamental design changes. There's no real, practical way to fix the Bitcoin network, in my opinion.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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