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marcan42's profile
Hector Martin
Hector Martin
Hector Martin
@marcan42

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Hector Martin

@marcan42

If it ain't broke, I'll fix it! I'm porting Linux to Apple Silicon Macs at @AsahiLinux. http://patreon.com/marcan  | http://github.com/sponsors/marcan 

Tokyo, Japan
marcan.st
Joined May 2009

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    1. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Dec 2017
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      Replying to @marcan42 @doragasu @Techmoan

      That means we can perceive it as above the noise floor. Since music isn't a flat broadband noise source but strongly tonal, this means that the effective dynamic range of 16-bit PCM is *higher* than 96dB, because we can encode the information content above the noise floor.

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    2. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Dec 2017
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      Replying to @marcan42 @doragasu @Techmoan

      This is all *without* shaped dither. Shaped dither *further* increases dynamic range by taking advantage of the frequency-dependent response of the human ear, to lower the noise floor in the bands where it most matters.

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    3. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Dec 2017
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      Replying to @marcan42 @doragasu @Techmoan

      This is all graphically easy to see on a spectrum analyzer, which is a good visual tool to look at audio the way our ears perceive it. That's why the noise spectrum of dithered silence at 44.1kHz/16 is not -96dB, but significantly lower (depending on FFT parameters).

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    4. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Dec 2017
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      Replying to @marcan42 @doragasu @Techmoan

      @xiphmont has a footnote in the article I linked that notes how with an infinite window size, the dynamic range is effectively infinite; of course our ears don't have an effectively infinite window size. We can come up with a representative approximation for perceptual purposes.

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    5. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Dec 2017
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      Replying to @marcan42 @doragasu and

      Ultimately the real point is: the dynamic range of our ears is defined as the difference between the loudest (ear-damage level) sound and the quietest sound *we can perceive*. Since *we can perceive* a sound encoded at <-96dB in 16bit PCM, that is *not* the dynamic range.

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    6. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Dec 2017
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      Replying to @marcan42 @doragasu and

      Remember the absolute threshold of hearing is defined for a *pure tone*, not broadband noise! It would be way higher for broadband white noise.

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    7. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Dec 2017
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      Replying to @marcan42 @doragasu and

      I just did a little test, and I can perceive a pure tone at 800Hz at about -30dB relative to white noise. That means the dynamic range of a 16-bit PCM signal should be somewhere around 96+30 = 126dB. Shaped dither would improve this further.

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    8. doragasu‏ @doragasu 17 Dec 2017
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      Replying to @marcan42 @Techmoan @xiphmont

      Understood, thanks for the explanation. Just one tiny remark. Ear response is logarithmic (both in amplitude and frequency), so instead of measuring the noise floor using an FFT, it would be more suited to use something like 1/3 octave frequency bands...

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    9. doragasu‏ @doragasu 17 Dec 2017
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      Replying to @doragasu @marcan42 and

      When using these kind of measurements, if you have white noise, the obtained noise for each frequency band will be higher, as frequency increases (since the higher the frequency is, the more bandwidth the 1/3 octave band has).

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    10. doragasu‏ @doragasu 17 Dec 2017
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      Replying to @doragasu @marcan42 and

      It could be interesting repeating your experiment for higher frequencies (e.g. 8 kHz) to see if the result differs.

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      Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Dec 2017
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      Replying to @doragasu @Techmoan @xiphmont

      With the caveat that I'm not doing this scientifically (not double-blind/ABX, I'm just muting a track in audacity), yeah it's about 20dB up at 8kHz, not 30dB.

      11:16 PM - 17 Dec 2017
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        2. doragasu‏ @doragasu 17 Dec 2017
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          Replying to @marcan42 @Techmoan @xiphmont

          Makes sense. Thanks for the explanations and the tests!!!

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        3. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Dec 2017
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          Replying to @doragasu @Techmoan @xiphmont

          BTW, we can define a "window size" for the human ear based on the point where tones turn into rhythm, which is about 20Hz. That's 2400 samples at 48kHz. And it so turns out that at least Audacity's FFT at window=2048 puts full scale white noise at -30dB. Food for thought. 🤔

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