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marcan42's profile
Hector Martin
Hector Martin
Hector Martin
@marcan42

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Hector Martin

@marcan42

If it ain't broke, I'll fix it! I'm porting Linux to Apple Silicon Macs at @AsahiLinux. http://patreon.com/marcan  | http://github.com/sponsors/marcan 

Tokyo, Japan
marcan.st
Joined May 2009

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    1. doragasu‏ @doragasu 17 Dec 2017
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      Replying to @doragasu @marcan42 @Techmoan

      You have to be careful though, the lower the Fs is, the more stringent requirements will be put both in the anti-aliasing and the reconstruction filters. Both must be analog and will not be the ideal brickwall filter.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Dec 2017
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      Replying to @doragasu @Techmoan

      Fs only needs to be strictly above 2*Nyquist for whatever you want to encode. Oversampling is a practical requirement for ADCs and DACs as an *implementation detail*. The end result is still a black box that takes analog in and spits 48kHz out.

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    3. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Dec 2017
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      Replying to @marcan42 @doragasu @Techmoan

      The fact that the *practical* way to make a near-ideal ADC or DAC is by resampling/filtering digitally first is irrelevant. That does not change the fact that 44.1kHz/48kHz digital audio is and always will be sufficient to encode all the information.

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    4. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Dec 2017
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      Replying to @marcan42 @doragasu @Techmoan

      This has nothing to do with dynamic range. Dithering is required in order to have *consistent* quantization noise (a flat white noise floor) and to be able to encode the content with zero distortion. Dithering per se is not a perceptual hack.

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    5. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Dec 2017
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      Replying to @marcan42 @doragasu @Techmoan

      Our perception of audio is in the frequency domain, not the time domain. This means that even though, say, a 1kHz tone at -100dB is *below* the broadband noise floor of 96dB, it is *above* the noise floor in a narrow band around its frequency.

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    6. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Dec 2017
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      Replying to @marcan42 @doragasu @Techmoan

      That means we can perceive it as above the noise floor. Since music isn't a flat broadband noise source but strongly tonal, this means that the effective dynamic range of 16-bit PCM is *higher* than 96dB, because we can encode the information content above the noise floor.

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    7. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Dec 2017
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      Replying to @marcan42 @doragasu @Techmoan

      This is all *without* shaped dither. Shaped dither *further* increases dynamic range by taking advantage of the frequency-dependent response of the human ear, to lower the noise floor in the bands where it most matters.

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    8. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Dec 2017
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      Replying to @marcan42 @doragasu @Techmoan

      This is all graphically easy to see on a spectrum analyzer, which is a good visual tool to look at audio the way our ears perceive it. That's why the noise spectrum of dithered silence at 44.1kHz/16 is not -96dB, but significantly lower (depending on FFT parameters).

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    9. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Dec 2017
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      Replying to @marcan42 @doragasu @Techmoan

      @xiphmont has a footnote in the article I linked that notes how with an infinite window size, the dynamic range is effectively infinite; of course our ears don't have an effectively infinite window size. We can come up with a representative approximation for perceptual purposes.

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    10. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Dec 2017
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      Replying to @marcan42 @doragasu and

      Ultimately the real point is: the dynamic range of our ears is defined as the difference between the loudest (ear-damage level) sound and the quietest sound *we can perceive*. Since *we can perceive* a sound encoded at <-96dB in 16bit PCM, that is *not* the dynamic range.

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      Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Dec 2017
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      Replying to @marcan42 @doragasu and

      Remember the absolute threshold of hearing is defined for a *pure tone*, not broadband noise! It would be way higher for broadband white noise.

      10:55 PM - 17 Dec 2017
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        2. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Dec 2017
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          Replying to @marcan42 @doragasu and

          I just did a little test, and I can perceive a pure tone at 800Hz at about -30dB relative to white noise. That means the dynamic range of a 16-bit PCM signal should be somewhere around 96+30 = 126dB. Shaped dither would improve this further.

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        3. doragasu‏ @doragasu 17 Dec 2017
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          Replying to @marcan42 @Techmoan @xiphmont

          Understood, thanks for the explanation. Just one tiny remark. Ear response is logarithmic (both in amplitude and frequency), so instead of measuring the noise floor using an FFT, it would be more suited to use something like 1/3 octave frequency bands...

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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