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marcan42's profile
Hector Martin
Hector Martin
Hector Martin
@marcan42

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Hector Martin

@marcan42

If it ain't broke, I'll fix it! I'm porting Linux to Apple Silicon Macs at @AsahiLinux. http://patreon.com/marcan  | http://github.com/sponsors/marcan 

Tokyo, Japan
marcan.st
Joined May 2009

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    1. whitequark‏ @whitequark 23 Dec 2020
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      i've always wanted to know how PGA packages are made. a BGA is easy (well, conceptually); it's just a PCB with a chip bonded to it. but PGAs (and more generally ceramic packages) aren't just PCBs, at least not ordinary ones, but they still have to have internal interconnect

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    2. whitequark‏ @whitequark 23 Dec 2020
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      i assume it's similar to a very thick ceramic PCB with an additional layer on top, but it's not like that comparison explains a lot! also, how come all small-scale IC runs come in ceramic packages, ceramic seems a lot harder to work with and not easier

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    3. A few million pixels‏ @itsybitsydots 23 Dec 2020
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      Replying to @whitequark

      I assume the advantage over plastic is that you can just buy a bunch of the ceramic packages, glue the die inside, wire bond using a wire bonding machine, and solder the lid on. don't need to do any fancy plastic molding to get the chip ready

      3 replies 1 retweet 12 likes
    4. whitequark‏ @whitequark 23 Dec 2020
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      Replying to @itsybitsydots

      OH

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      Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 23 Dec 2020
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      Replying to @whitequark @itsybitsydots

      So the question is, why don't they just... make plastic packages that work the same way? Big hole in the middle for the die to be bonded out of?

      8:59 PM - 23 Dec 2020
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        1. Journeyman Pedant‏ @journeymanped 23 Dec 2020
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          Replying to @marcan42 @whitequark @itsybitsydots

          I guess by the time you're at those small volumes the cost of a single plastic vs ceramic package isn't usually a concern. Also you don't have to deal with the much worse thermal expansion properties of epoxy vs ceramic when glueing it down etc. (speculation)

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        2. elena‏ @USP_Talon 23 Dec 2020
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          Replying to @marcan42 @whitequark @itsybitsydots

          i imagine part of it is that a non-bespoke/generic plastic package would likely be far more vulnerable to thermal issues (+ other phys. issues maybe?) than a ceramic one, leading to an unacceptable MTBF compared to the slightly more expensive ceramic package?

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        3. elena‏ @USP_Talon 23 Dec 2020
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          Replying to @USP_Talon @marcan42 and

          (by other physical issues i mean the fact that plastic being considerably more flexible than ceramic would likely cause problems when you get into any sort of mechanical stress, since you're not making a plastic tomb for it but rather making a chill pad for the die to vibe in)

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        2. Rob Lion‏ @rnlion 23 Dec 2020
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          Replying to @marcan42 @whitequark @itsybitsydots

          You've still got to seal it, preferably hermetically; easier to do that with a soldered- or brazed-on lid on a ceramic package than with some two-part plastic thing. In mass production I guess it's basically an overmold over the leadframe.

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        3. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 23 Dec 2020
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          Replying to @rnlion @whitequark @itsybitsydots

          That's true, but OTOH glob-top chips work in production so... doesn't sound insurmountable?

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
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        1. Chris Jones‏ @chrisgj198 24 Dec 2020
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          Replying to @marcan42 @whitequark @itsybitsydots

          You can do milled out packages where you get some plastic packages with no die inside, mill a hole and expose the leadframe then do die attach, wire bond and glob top, but I've only seen it done where there's no ceramic equivalent package available.

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