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marcan42's profile
Hector Martin
Hector Martin
Hector Martin
@marcan42

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Hector Martin

@marcan42

If it ain't broke, I'll fix it! I'm porting Linux to Apple Silicon Macs at @AsahiLinux. http://patreon.com/marcan  | http://github.com/sponsors/marcan 

Tokyo, Japan
marcan.st
Joined May 2009

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    1. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 29 Nov 2020
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      No such luck for the M1, but we at least have the fact that it's a legacy-free architecture, comes from the mobile space (where GPUs are historically less insane than PC ones), and I trust their engineers a bit more than AMD or Nvidia ones :-)

      1 reply 0 retweets 99 likes
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    2. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 29 Nov 2020
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      The other big open source fully reverse engineered GPU driver project is Nouveau, which has shown that this is possible. Unfortunately they've been *heavily* screwed over by Nvidia (except on Tegra, the only place they've helped out at all).

      2 replies 0 retweets 88 likes
      Show this thread
    3. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 29 Nov 2020
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      Linus himself has said he'd love to see Linux running on M1 macs, but doesn't think it'll happen. Not because they're locked down, but because Apple won't help us with documentation. But they at least did this:pic.twitter.com/71192GFcnz

      4 replies 3 retweets 133 likes
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    4. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 29 Nov 2020
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      The fact that Apple allows this in their secureboot policy is critical. Linux ports to game consoles / iPhones / etc are all fun and games, but you're always at the mercy of exploits, and the resulting cat and mouse game.

      2 replies 0 retweets 108 likes
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    5. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 29 Nov 2020
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      That means all effort is wasted unless exploits keep up, and regular users would never want to do this and severely limit their access to official upgrades and such. But this isn't an issue with M1 macs.

      1 reply 1 retweet 78 likes
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    6. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 29 Nov 2020
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      Of course there are downsides (security-wise) to downgrading your secureboot policy to run Linux, but nothing that would be worse than any old x86 machine with no serious secureboot anyway, so that's hardly a problem for the kind of people who'd want to boot Linux.

      2 replies 0 retweets 77 likes
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    7. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 29 Nov 2020
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      More importantly, Apple isn't going to go off suing people for working on this project. While reverse engineering macOS drivers may be legally questionable in some jurisdictions, it's perfectly legal in others, and so is getting the binaries (any mac owner can do it).

      1 reply 0 retweets 73 likes
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    8. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 29 Nov 2020
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      So what do you think? Is this something you'd actually throw money at? If there is enough interest that this might succeed, I'll open up a Patreon. Obviously all development would be public and open source.

      5 replies 3 retweets 105 likes
      Show this thread
    9. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 29 Nov 2020
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      On a personal level, I'm already freelance and this is the kind of work I enjoy doing, so I'd be very happy to dedicate a large fraction of my time to this. (You've seen what I can do on game consoles in my spare time, think much more than that)

      1 reply 0 retweets 98 likes
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    10. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 29 Nov 2020
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      I think there is no point on working on this unless a certain minimum is met such that I can guarantee a decent time investment - I don't want this to be another half-assed Linux port that makes for a fancy tech demo but nobody would actually want to use.

      1 reply 0 retweets 85 likes
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      Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 29 Nov 2020
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      So I'm thinking I would set up the Patreon in "pay per creation" mode initially, or otherwise paused, and not charge anything until I reach a minimum threshold (TBD). Thoughts?

      11:09 AM - 29 Nov 2020
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      • hell writes memory initialization code for fun please DM me cute 🐈 pics 🏳️‍🌈 MintCoder KuwaLee(褲襪)🫐 Yacine Hmito A Follower Mom’s Via Getty 0verdark Gerhard Torges
      14 replies 0 retweets 106 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 29 Nov 2020
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          Since someone asked on HN: this would absolutely all be written with upstreamability in mind and upstreamed as soon as practical. None of that forever forked kernel with horrible hacks nonsense.

          5 replies 1 retweet 152 likes
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        3. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 30 Nov 2020
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          Okay, that was... a lot more support than I expected to get. Please stand by while I put together a Patreon!

          2 replies 4 retweets 90 likes
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        4. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 30 Nov 2020
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          Hector Martin Retweeted Hector Martin

          Patreon is up!https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1333459867323957251 …

          Hector Martin added,

          Hector Martin @marcan42
          Help make Linux on Apple Silicon Macs a reality! Patreon is up: https://www.patreon.com/marcan  I'm pausing billing until I get $4k/mo of commitment, so you won't be charged until there is enough momentum to make the project viable.
          Show this thread
          2 replies 5 retweets 57 likes
          Show this thread
        5. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Manawyrm‏ @Manawyrm 29 Nov 2020
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          Replying to @marcan42

          Yes, please! Someone on LKML mentioned building a small hypervisor layer to fix-up some quirks and get a more standard interrupt controller emulated. Any thoughts about that? Building a usable GPU driver would be an incredible piece of work.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 29 Nov 2020
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          Replying to @Manawyrm

          Not like I didn't already write a horrible custom interrupt controller driver for the PS4 so... But yeah, if a small HV shim makes technical sense, that's a reasonable approach. A custom intermediate bootloader will almost certainly be the way to go anyway.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. Show replies
        1. Marco‏ @Metion 29 Nov 2020
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          Replying to @marcan42

          If you are going to do this you should talk to @qwertyoruiopz , and checkra1n team, I think they could help you a lot.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        1. Dmitriy Beykun‏ @rz2k 29 Nov 2020
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          Replying to @marcan42

          if you will make a big media event out of this, get coverage in popular media and etc., there will be enough people willing to support this.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        1. New conversation
        2. qwertyoruiop‏ @qwertyoruiopz 29 Nov 2020
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          Replying to @marcan42

          you should join our discord! we are planning to use PongoOS, our toy kernel, in EL2, and use it to virtualize a GIC to boot UEFI (which will run in EL1). @never_released

          1 reply 0 retweets 11 likes
        3. qwertyoruiop‏ @qwertyoruiopz 29 Nov 2020
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          Replying to @qwertyoruiopz @marcan42 @never_released

          this should simplify things quite a bit..

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        4. Show replies
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        2. zalas(car.ess | AniCLover)‏ @hightrancesea 29 Nov 2020
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          Replying to @marcan42

          Would this be essentially Kickstarter with stretch goals? (Although I guess I don't know if Kickstarter would allow this kind of project)

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 29 Nov 2020
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          Replying to @hightrancesea

          Really just a normal Patreon, except I wouldn't actually start charging people unless some minimum support level is met (which is something you can make work within the way Patreon already works).

          2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
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