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marcan42's profile
Hector Martin
Hector Martin
Hector Martin
@marcan42

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Hector Martin

@marcan42

If it ain't broke, I'll fix it! I'm porting Linux to Apple Silicon Macs at @AsahiLinux. http://patreon.com/marcan  | http://github.com/sponsors/marcan 

Tokyo, Japan
marcan.st
Joined May 2009

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    1. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 29 Nov 2020
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      I have experience on this front, having worked on Linux ports for a bunch of things - from getting it to run on an old ISP router back when I was 14 years old, to making PS4 Linux happen, even to the point of running Steam games with full OpenGL and Vulkan support on it.

      1 reply 2 retweets 142 likes
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    2. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 29 Nov 2020
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      Porting Linux to random devices is easy. I've done one-evening ports to completely bespoke architectures other than the CPU/MMU. Porting Linux to the point where you'd *actually want to use it*, now that is much harder.

      1 reply 2 retweets 116 likes
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    3. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 29 Nov 2020
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      Having financial support for such an endeavour would actually make it viable. It would go from something I could dedicate random evenings to (plus crunch time before a conference where I want to show stuff off) to something I could consistently work on.

      1 reply 1 retweet 88 likes
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    4. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 29 Nov 2020
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      When I say a Linux you would actually want to use, I mean something with all basic hardware working: keyboard/touchpad/sound/screen/GPU/WiFi/BT/USB and *decent power management*.

      1 reply 0 retweets 120 likes
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    5. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 29 Nov 2020
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      The amount of effort involved to get there is proportional to how different a given platform is to existing ones. M1 macs are brand new. Other than the CPU architecture itself and a few peripherals, almost everything is Apple-custom and proprietary. Especially the GPU.

      2 replies 1 retweet 97 likes
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    6. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 29 Nov 2020
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      The big time sink is GPU support, which is what takes a Linux port from being a toy to being something you would actually want to use. It's why Switch Linux and PS4 Linux happened: the Switch uses a completely standard GPU, and the PS4's is only slightly customized.

      3 replies 2 retweets 103 likes
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    7. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 29 Nov 2020
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      No such luck for the M1, but we at least have the fact that it's a legacy-free architecture, comes from the mobile space (where GPUs are historically less insane than PC ones), and I trust their engineers a bit more than AMD or Nvidia ones :-)

      1 reply 0 retweets 99 likes
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    8. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 29 Nov 2020
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      The other big open source fully reverse engineered GPU driver project is Nouveau, which has shown that this is possible. Unfortunately they've been *heavily* screwed over by Nvidia (except on Tegra, the only place they've helped out at all).

      2 replies 0 retweets 88 likes
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    9. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 29 Nov 2020
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      Linus himself has said he'd love to see Linux running on M1 macs, but doesn't think it'll happen. Not because they're locked down, but because Apple won't help us with documentation. But they at least did this:pic.twitter.com/71192GFcnz

      4 replies 3 retweets 133 likes
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    10. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 29 Nov 2020
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      The fact that Apple allows this in their secureboot policy is critical. Linux ports to game consoles / iPhones / etc are all fun and games, but you're always at the mercy of exploits, and the resulting cat and mouse game.

      2 replies 0 retweets 108 likes
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      Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 29 Nov 2020
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      That means all effort is wasted unless exploits keep up, and regular users would never want to do this and severely limit their access to official upgrades and such. But this isn't an issue with M1 macs.

      11:09 AM - 29 Nov 2020
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      • hell writes memory initialization code for fun João S. O. Bueno ch1n3du 0xotHik⚡s T_W_R orla please DM me cute 🐈 pics 🏳️‍🌈 KuwaLee(褲襪)🫐 A Follower Mom’s Via Getty
      1 reply 1 retweet 78 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 29 Nov 2020
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          Of course there are downsides (security-wise) to downgrading your secureboot policy to run Linux, but nothing that would be worse than any old x86 machine with no serious secureboot anyway, so that's hardly a problem for the kind of people who'd want to boot Linux.

          2 replies 0 retweets 77 likes
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        3. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 29 Nov 2020
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          More importantly, Apple isn't going to go off suing people for working on this project. While reverse engineering macOS drivers may be legally questionable in some jurisdictions, it's perfectly legal in others, and so is getting the binaries (any mac owner can do it).

          1 reply 0 retweets 73 likes
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        4. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 29 Nov 2020
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          So what do you think? Is this something you'd actually throw money at? If there is enough interest that this might succeed, I'll open up a Patreon. Obviously all development would be public and open source.

          5 replies 3 retweets 105 likes
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        5. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 29 Nov 2020
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          On a personal level, I'm already freelance and this is the kind of work I enjoy doing, so I'd be very happy to dedicate a large fraction of my time to this. (You've seen what I can do on game consoles in my spare time, think much more than that)

          1 reply 0 retweets 98 likes
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        6. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 29 Nov 2020
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          I think there is no point on working on this unless a certain minimum is met such that I can guarantee a decent time investment - I don't want this to be another half-assed Linux port that makes for a fancy tech demo but nobody would actually want to use.

          1 reply 0 retweets 85 likes
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        7. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 29 Nov 2020
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          So I'm thinking I would set up the Patreon in "pay per creation" mode initially, or otherwise paused, and not charge anything until I reach a minimum threshold (TBD). Thoughts?

          14 replies 0 retweets 106 likes
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        8. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 29 Nov 2020
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          Since someone asked on HN: this would absolutely all be written with upstreamability in mind and upstreamed as soon as practical. None of that forever forked kernel with horrible hacks nonsense.

          5 replies 1 retweet 152 likes
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        9. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 30 Nov 2020
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          Okay, that was... a lot more support than I expected to get. Please stand by while I put together a Patreon!

          2 replies 4 retweets 90 likes
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        10. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 30 Nov 2020
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          Hector Martin Retweeted Hector Martin

          Patreon is up!https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1333459867323957251 …

          Hector Martin added,

          Hector Martin @marcan42
          Help make Linux on Apple Silicon Macs a reality! Patreon is up: https://www.patreon.com/marcan  I'm pausing billing until I get $4k/mo of commitment, so you won't be charged until there is enough momentum to make the project viable.
          Show this thread
          2 replies 5 retweets 57 likes
          Show this thread
        11. End of conversation

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