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marcan42's profile
Hector Martin
Hector Martin
Hector Martin
@marcan42

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Hector Martin

@marcan42

If it ain't broke, I'll fix it! I'm porting Linux to Apple Silicon Macs at @AsahiLinux. http://patreon.com/marcan  | http://github.com/sponsors/marcan 

Tokyo, Japan
marcan.st
Joined May 2009

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    1. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Nov 2020
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      Replying to @ohunt

      See the next tweet. Apple made the M1 able to switch to x86's consistency model. No other ARM chip can do that.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    2. Longhorn‏ @never_released 18 Nov 2020
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      Replying to @marcan42 @ohunt

      Hmmm... no. NVIDIA Denver and Carmel processors (64-bit Tegra K1 and Tegra Xavier) implement sequential consistency as the memory model *for everything*, which is even stronger than x86's. So "no other ARM chip" doesn't apply, and there are others too in server land...

      1 reply 0 retweets 8 likes
    3. Longhorn‏ @never_released 18 Nov 2020
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      Replying to @never_released @marcan42 @ohunt

      Also Arm Cortex cores have much faster barriers than before, took them a while though. (and Qualcomm's SD820 Kryo cores had very fast barriers, but RIP) Please don't use arguments like that, it just hurts credibility on what you write more than anything...

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    4. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 18 Nov 2020
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      Replying to @never_released @ohunt

      Okay, I didn't know about Denver and Carmel having that property... but those also aren't ARM chips, they're a proprietary nVidia architecture running "rOsetta" and pretending to be ARM, so it's no surprise they're special :-)

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 18 Nov 2020
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      Replying to @marcan42 @never_released @ohunt

      Fast barriers don't help unless they're practically *free*; you can't really predict what loads/stores of x86 code need to have the properties of the x86 model, so you pretty much have to do it for all of them.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    6. Longhorn‏ @never_released 18 Nov 2020
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      Replying to @marcan42 @ohunt

      Yeah, that's being handled through multiple ways, one of which having chips where uncontended atomics are as cheap as a regular memory access. Change to use ARMv8.1-A atomics in the JIT-generated code because of those reasons was rolled out in Windows 10 since a bit.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Longhorn‏ @never_released 18 Nov 2020
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      Replying to @never_released @marcan42 @ohunt

      Generally, Arm server cores (not from Arm themselves, which keep the weak memory model, opting for the optimize barriers and atomics path only) use the TSO memory model. Apple chose switchable memory model... and NVIDIA chose SC.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    8. Longhorn‏ @never_released 18 Nov 2020
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      Replying to @never_released @marcan42 @ohunt

      It's quite intriguing though to see such core aspects of the architecture vary across implementers, because Arm only imposes a baseline, not "your core has to implement a weak memory model" in their rules.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 18 Nov 2020
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      Replying to @never_released @ohunt

      It's funny how the server folks are always dragging their feet with backwards compat because nobody wants to actually *port* code. AIUI Google basically got IBM to add proper (usable) little-endian support to POWER for this reason too.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Longhorn‏ @never_released 18 Nov 2020
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      Replying to @marcan42 @ohunt

      On big endian and Arm, all chips out of Arm themselves and the NVIDIA ones have full BE support. (and yes, there are Arm big endian OSes, NetBSD is one) Although, Apple chips since the A11 don't have big endian support anymore...

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 19 Nov 2020
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      Replying to @never_released @ohunt

      I got of my Twitter followers by doing Wii homebrew development/hacks and it has a big-endian ARM926EJ-S, so... :-) I even ported Linux to it for shits and giggles one day.

      3:14 AM - 19 Nov 2020
      • 6 Likes
      • NewoGame Zhuowei Zhang Adrian LeBlanc-Kobylansky Longhorn Konrad Beckmann
      2 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
        1. Longhorn‏ @never_released 19 Nov 2020
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          Replying to @marcan42 @ohunt

          SETEND accessible from user-space has to be one of the most cursed instructions in an ISA.

          0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
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        1. leo60228‏ @leo60228 19 Nov 2020
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          Replying to @marcan42 @never_released @ohunt

          an M1 vs. ARM7TDMI comparison wld be hilarious it was still showing up in brand new products until at *least* 2016 (the New 3DS has one for DS backwards compatibility)

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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