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marcan42's profile
Hector Martin
Hector Martin
Hector Martin
@marcan42

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Hector Martin

@marcan42

If it ain't broke, I'll fix it! I'm porting Linux to Apple Silicon Macs at @AsahiLinux. http://patreon.com/marcan  | http://github.com/sponsors/marcan 

Tokyo, Japan
marcan.st
Joined May 2009

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    Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Nov 2020
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    Also, everyone please stop eating up Apple's marketing bullshit and calling Rosetta 2 an "Ahead-of-Time Translator, Not An Emulator" as if it is some Fundamental Difference that Makes It Fast. It's a JIT emulator, with a cache, with opportunistic partial ahead of time warming.

    11:02 PM - 17 Nov 2020
    • 48 Retweets
    • 244 Likes
    • tuss Nawaphon Isarathanachaikul hell writes memory initialization code for fun Tyson Key JAY fxsheep Karel 3.2 Gen 2x1 UARTman ANA 👾
    7 replies 48 retweets 244 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Nov 2020
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        Converting x86 apps to ARM statically is not a thing, and will *never* be a thing, because that would break mathematically proven theorems about computer science (beyond obvious cheats like just embedding the emulator into the "converted" app).

        3 replies 3 retweets 55 likes
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      3. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Nov 2020
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        You *always* need to JIT, you *always* need an escape hatch no matter how much work you try to do ahead of time, and you *cannot* statically infer all the information required for full static translation in all but the simplest cases.

        2 replies 0 retweets 47 likes
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      4. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Nov 2020
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        The best Rosetta 2 can do here is just scan the executable ahead of time, and try to JIT everything it *guesses* it might need later ahead of time. It won't know until the app runs whether it guessed right. It's an emulator. A nice, well engineered emulator.

        2 replies 2 retweets 56 likes
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      5. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Nov 2020
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        (Alternately, if you subscribe to "emulators don't translate, they interpret", then qemu and Dolphin aren't emulators either)

        2 replies 2 retweets 41 likes
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      6. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Nov 2020
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        Wine Is Not an Emulator, but wine works under Rosetta 2, which is. Is Rosetta 2 statically translating Windows apps to macOS ARM? Obviously not :-) Is Rosetta 2 JITting Windows apps when run through Wine? Sure! Is it caching those translations? We don't know! Open question.

        2 replies 5 retweets 57 likes
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      7. End of conversation
      1. Suno Kurasshu‏ @snowcrashdotfun 18 Nov 2020
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        Replying to @marcan42

        Ok but that doesn't exactly roll off the tongue now does it

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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      1. New conversation
      2. Anno0770‏ @Anno0770 18 Nov 2020
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        Replying to @marcan42 @whitequark

        Is "no self-modifying code" (so no trampolines/dynamic libraries/no changes to the executable memory regions and no region changes) a sufficiently strong condition to allow complete ahead-of-time translation?

        1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
      3. whitequark‏ @whitequark 18 Nov 2020
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        Replying to @Anno0770 @marcan42

        not... really, because you can jump in the middle of an x86 instruction and you can't necessarily predict every indirect jump. so in theory you can ahead-of-time translate every possible parsing of the x86 code, but in practice that would be incredibly wasteful

        2 replies 0 retweets 11 likes
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      1. gim  ⚡ ⚡ ⚡‏ @gim 18 Nov 2020
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        Replying to @marcan42

        It's basically BT, not first one, not last one.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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      2. Rene Ritchie‏Verified account @reneritchie 19 Nov 2020
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        Replying to @marcan42

        This is kinda cranky and dismissive. Instead, when you see something with unusual performance characteristics thanks to everything from silicon to bits, producing results that can be better than native, it’d be super interesting to dive in and see how they’re doing it, no?

        2 replies 0 retweets 15 likes
      3. Patrick Moorhead #CES2021‏Verified account @PatrickMoorhead 19 Nov 2020
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        Replying to @reneritchie @marcan42

        Just call it MAGIC and move on....pic.twitter.com/zDYWvMIrwm

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. Show replies

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