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marcan42's profile
Hector Martin
Hector Martin
Hector Martin
@marcan42

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Hector Martin

@marcan42

If it ain't broke, I'll fix it! I'm porting Linux to Apple Silicon Macs at @AsahiLinux. http://patreon.com/marcan  | http://github.com/sponsors/marcan 

Tokyo, Japan
marcan.st
Joined May 2009

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    1. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Nov 2020
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      It's no wonder the M1 Macs are beating the pants off of the previous Intel offering there. But Intel has been *sucking badly* for years, and there are a pile of improvements other than the CPU.

      1 reply 0 retweets 34 likes
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    2. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Nov 2020
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      As for Rosetta 2, it's good, but I'm still *really* curious how it'll do in the audio domain. We're talking lots of floating point processing with some integer mixed in, written by lots of different teams, some scalar, some vector, *definitely* a lot of it not well optimized.

      2 replies 0 retweets 41 likes
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    3. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Nov 2020
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      And with hard realtime constraints - if the JIT fires off anything substantial in the audio processing thread, you *will* get a dropout - and even if it's not substantial, you'll probably get a pile of priority inversion hazards that will cause inconsistent dropouts.

      3 replies 0 retweets 29 likes
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    4. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Nov 2020
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      So it looks like for day-to-day stuff Mac users can probably be confident that they won't lose much vs. their older Intel Mac under Rosetta 2, and gain in many instances. But I wouldn't put my money on M1+R2 for all workloads yet.

      1 reply 0 retweets 23 likes
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    5. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Nov 2020
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      It'll be interesting to see these performance details worked out in more detail; e.g. people have talked about M1 being way faster at ObjC object management, so presumably it has *way* faster atomics. That matters a lot for some kinds of software, and not at all for others.

      2 replies 0 retweets 30 likes
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    6. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Nov 2020
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      But the question is how, and why - presumably their bus system is tighter than typical x86 ones? I'm looking forward to a deeper dive, and whether AMD/Intel care to improve this in the future.

      1 reply 1 retweet 25 likes
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    7. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Nov 2020
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      Also, remember that Apple cheated with their control over the CPU for Rosetta 2. Getting R2 x86 performance on any other ARM is impossible, due to the memory model mismatch. You have to massively slow down all loads and stores.

      3 replies 5 retweets 51 likes
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    8. Alvaro アル  🇯🇵 🇪🇸‏ @alvaroga91 17 Nov 2020
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      Replying to @marcan42

      Can you elaborate how they cheated their way? Super curious 👀

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Nov 2020
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      Replying to @alvaroga91

      Read the next tweet? :-)

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Alvaro アル  🇯🇵 🇪🇸‏ @alvaroga91 17 Nov 2020
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      Replying to @marcan42

      Got it, ty! Do you know if they kinda applied the same philosophy to their PowerPC era? They might have some experience emulating stuff from x86 on other archs 🤔

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Nov 2020
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      Replying to @alvaroga91

      Apple has not controlled CPUs until now, but that said, x86 typically doesn't have these memory model issues emulating other arches *because* its model is so restrictive (because of legacy backwards compat).

      10:24 PM - 17 Nov 2020
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      • Joshua Yanovski Alvaro アル 🇯🇵🇪🇸
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        2. Alvaro アル  🇯🇵 🇪🇸‏ @alvaroga91 17 Nov 2020
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          Replying to @marcan42

          I see... Well I don't see them moving back to x86 any time soon, and they will slowly get better in the integration. This said, esperando sentado until Apple forces developers to ditch all x86 builds in a 2-3 years x)

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Alvaro アル  🇯🇵 🇪🇸‏ @alvaroga91 17 Nov 2020
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          Replying to @alvaroga91 @marcan42

          Although thinking twice... They are still releasing x86 models IIRC so that will get delayed until they completely move ofc

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation

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