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marcan42's profile
Hector Martin
Hector Martin
Hector Martin
@marcan42

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Hector Martin

@marcan42

If it ain't broke, I'll fix it! I'm porting Linux to Apple Silicon Macs at @AsahiLinux. http://patreon.com/marcan  | http://github.com/sponsors/marcan 

Tokyo, Japan
marcan.st
Joined May 2009

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    1. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Nov 2020
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      Reading between the lines (and RDF) on the Apple M1, it seems they built a very competitive chip - but not a magical one. TL;DR it looks like they're in the ballpark of Ryzen at multithreaded workloads, within the ~same TDP. Quite strong single thread perf though.

      5 replies 44 retweets 187 likes
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    2. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Nov 2020
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      So it's clear they're not "10x better perf per watt" which is something I've seen thrown around a few days ago. But they're good. They are now competing with AMD, and Intel, well, haha good luck. (They totally had it coming.)

      1 reply 1 retweet 59 likes
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    3. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Nov 2020
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      Since this is a completely different architecture, benchmark numbers are *not* comparable like they are across x86. The margin of error is much larger, because on top of µarch differences, you also have *compiler* differences and manual optimization for apps with hand-rolled asm.

      1 reply 5 retweets 46 likes
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    4. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Nov 2020
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      So right now M1 wins on multithread Geekbench vs. a similar Ryzen, but loses on Cinebench, by significant margins either way. For any single benchmark, I would easily expect up to 50% noise in either direction at this stage. Don't try to extract more significant figures.

      1 reply 3 retweets 43 likes
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    5. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Nov 2020
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      That said, it is somewhat reasonable to assume that M1 is likely to trend ahead as stuff is better optimized for ARM. But we don't know what kind of gains are yet to be had; some things might have reached peak already. So things will get interesting from here on.

      2 replies 2 retweets 33 likes
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    6. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Nov 2020
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      Once we have more real-world app tests to use as comparisons, we'll have a better idea of how the *practical* performance of the M1 compares with the current x86 crop.

      1 reply 0 retweets 21 likes
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    7. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Nov 2020
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      All this said, it looks like Apple has gone all-in on the "desktop experience". The really strong single-core perf (I wonder how much of that can be attributed to "x86 legacy garbage still has a cost"?), the awesome SSD, GPU, etc.

      1 reply 0 retweets 37 likes
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      Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Nov 2020
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      It's no wonder the M1 Macs are beating the pants off of the previous Intel offering there. But Intel has been *sucking badly* for years, and there are a pile of improvements other than the CPU.

      9:59 PM - 17 Nov 2020
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        2. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Nov 2020
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          As for Rosetta 2, it's good, but I'm still *really* curious how it'll do in the audio domain. We're talking lots of floating point processing with some integer mixed in, written by lots of different teams, some scalar, some vector, *definitely* a lot of it not well optimized.

          2 replies 0 retweets 41 likes
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        3. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Nov 2020
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          And with hard realtime constraints - if the JIT fires off anything substantial in the audio processing thread, you *will* get a dropout - and even if it's not substantial, you'll probably get a pile of priority inversion hazards that will cause inconsistent dropouts.

          3 replies 0 retweets 29 likes
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        4. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Nov 2020
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          So it looks like for day-to-day stuff Mac users can probably be confident that they won't lose much vs. their older Intel Mac under Rosetta 2, and gain in many instances. But I wouldn't put my money on M1+R2 for all workloads yet.

          1 reply 0 retweets 23 likes
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        5. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Nov 2020
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          It'll be interesting to see these performance details worked out in more detail; e.g. people have talked about M1 being way faster at ObjC object management, so presumably it has *way* faster atomics. That matters a lot for some kinds of software, and not at all for others.

          2 replies 0 retweets 30 likes
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        6. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Nov 2020
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          But the question is how, and why - presumably their bus system is tighter than typical x86 ones? I'm looking forward to a deeper dive, and whether AMD/Intel care to improve this in the future.

          1 reply 1 retweet 25 likes
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        7. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Nov 2020
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          Also, remember that Apple cheated with their control over the CPU for Rosetta 2. Getting R2 x86 performance on any other ARM is impossible, due to the memory model mismatch. You have to massively slow down all loads and stores.

          3 replies 5 retweets 51 likes
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        8. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Nov 2020
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          So Apple straight up implemented the x86 consistency model on their cores. That's the kind of high-impact detail that makes or breaks emulation performance for a different arch. Did they do this for any other x86-isms? Nobody knows so far.

          8 replies 31 retweets 139 likes
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        9. End of conversation

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