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marcan42's profile
Hector Martin
Hector Martin
Hector Martin
@marcan42

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Hector Martin

@marcan42

If it ain't broke, I'll fix it! I'm porting Linux to Apple Silicon Macs at @AsahiLinux. http://patreon.com/marcan  | http://github.com/sponsors/marcan 

Tokyo, Japan
marcan.st
Joined May 2009

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    1. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 10 Mar 2020
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      CPU bug wars update: the latest attack against AMD CPUs just leaks memory access patterns. This is basically inherent in how caches work. It's not even a speculation attack. Intel still has the lead in designing CPUs that give up all their secrets *by design* in speculation.

      6 replies 56 retweets 245 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Blakeyrat‏ @blakeyrat 10 Mar 2020
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      Replying to @marcan42

      You think Intel DESIGNED their chips to cause security problems and lose them sales? Come the fuck on.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 10 Mar 2020
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      Replying to @blakeyrat

      I think intel DESIGNED their chips under the mantra that anything that happens in speculation doesn't matter and no transistor shall be "wasted" on that, and any engineers who brought up security concerns were ignored.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. Blakeyrat‏ @blakeyrat 10 Mar 2020
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      Replying to @marcan42

      You realize that nobody, nobody anywhere, brought up security concerns about these features until they'd been in every CPU for like over a decade, right? It's not JUST Intel that missed it. Either don't turn an "oops" into "Intel engineers are evil monsters!" Ridiculous.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 10 Mar 2020
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      Replying to @blakeyrat

      Have you missed the part where Intel has a zillion data leaks and AMD doesn't? There's a difference between "oh we can do interesting things in speculation" and "<Intel> who needs page tables? your virtual address is now physical in speculation".

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    6. Blakeyrat‏ @blakeyrat 10 Mar 2020
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      Replying to @marcan42

      Look: what you have wrong is the MOTIVE not the consequences. You said Intel DESIGNED this feature to ... cause security holes and reduce their own sales? That makes no sense. If you truly believe it, you're creating a ridiculous conspiracy theory.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Blakeyrat‏ @blakeyrat 10 Mar 2020
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      Replying to @blakeyrat @marcan42

      Maybe the issue is you don't know what the word "designed" means? I mean I don't know man.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 10 Mar 2020
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      Replying to @blakeyrat

      Maybe the issue is you didn't read my original tweet closely enough? Intel *designed* their CPUs to do insane things *in speculation*. Their mistake was assuming that those things would never leave speculation.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Blakeyrat‏ @blakeyrat 10 Mar 2020
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      Replying to @marcan42

      This is what you typed: "Intel still has the lead in designing CPUs that give up all their secrets *by design* in speculation." If that's not what you meant, well, I can't read minds. I'm just reacting to what you typed.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 10 Mar 2020
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      Replying to @blakeyrat

      Yes, see the *in speculation* part. Intel didn't design their CPUs to be insecure under a normal architectural view, the problem is they designed them to be explicitly insecure (probably with "performance"/"cost" arguments) **in speculation** and ignored the possibility of leaks.

      7:40 AM - 10 Mar 2020
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Blakeyrat‏ @blakeyrat 10 Mar 2020
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          Replying to @marcan42

          You said they designed it "to give up secrets". They did not. That's clearly wrong. They designed it to execute code faster. The fact that it gives up secrets (and we both agree that's the case) is a SIDE-EFFECT of their design, not an effect.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 10 Mar 2020
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          Replying to @blakeyrat

          Look, if you're going to keep ignoring the "in speculation" qualifier, I give up. They DESIGNED the CPU to propagate secrets all the way through the microarchitectural pipeline only stopping at retirement.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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