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marcan42's profile
Hector Martin
Hector Martin
Hector Martin
@marcan42

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Hector Martin

@marcan42

If it ain't broke, I'll fix it! I'm porting Linux to Apple Silicon Macs at @AsahiLinux. http://patreon.com/marcan  | http://github.com/sponsors/marcan 

Tokyo, Japan
marcan.st
Joined May 2009

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    1. damageboy‏ @damageboy 13 Nov 2019
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      A small s**tstorm is heading your way, if you're in the business of running code on Intel computers. Here's a sad story about the state of computing in 2019. It'll take a couple of tweets, but it's actually kind of important (?), so please retweet so this gets proper attention:

      15 replies 840 retweets 1,279 likes
      Show this thread
    2. George Furbish‏ @geofurb 14 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @damageboy

      Is nobody attacking AMD, or is there some difference in design philosophy that has spared them from this wave of chip attacks?

      4 replies 0 retweets 14 likes
    3. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 14 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @geofurb @damageboy

      This isn't a chip attack, it's a stupid design bug. That said, there *is* a difference in design philosophy. Intel has chosen performance over any kind of design sanity / safety, every time, it seems as a systematic rule. AMD hasn't.

      2 replies 11 retweets 87 likes
    4. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 14 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @marcan42 @geofurb @damageboy

      So while both AMD and Intel have been equally hit by the general idea of speculation-based leaks in userland code (nothing the CPU can do about that), Intel has also had a huge pile of massively privilege-crossing speculation leaks that AMD hasn't.

      2 replies 2 retweets 25 likes
    5. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 14 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @marcan42 @geofurb @damageboy

      Because the Intel philosophy seems to have been "ignore security/sanity until the instruction retires", so all kinds of batshit insane stuff happens in speculation on Intel CPUs (like bypassing guest VM page tables or loading bad or privileged data) which doesn't on AMD.

      3 replies 2 retweets 36 likes
    6. SteakisGood‏ @SteakandChickn 17 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @marcan42 @geofurb @damageboy

      This “ignore security/sanity” sentiment that intel “has” is completely false; Intel internally has never had that philosophy. That’s something cooked up by reddit trolls.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @SteakandChickn @geofurb @damageboy

      The evidence is damning. All those speculation bugs Intel had due to cross-privilege leakage prior to retirement make it clear. It's not once or twice, it's a pattern.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    8. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @marcan42 @SteakandChickn and

      By the way, I said "ignore security/sanity *until the instruction retires*". They cared about the security of the end result, they just didn't care about security along the way, and as anyone well versed in security knows, that's a recipe for disaster. Defense in depth.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    9. SteakisGood‏ @SteakandChickn 17 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @marcan42 @geofurb @damageboy

      So are you suggesting it was outright outright malicious intent or laziness? Or both?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. SteakisGood‏ @SteakandChickn 17 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @SteakandChickn @marcan42 and

      Also – unless you’ve had engineers themselves tell you this, I wouldn’t say it’s “defense in depth”

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @SteakandChickn @geofurb @damageboy

      Neither. I bet it was a shitty policy, probably cooked up by managers, that no transistor shall be "wasted" on things that "don't matter" because the instruction will fault/roll back anyway, because that will just reduce performance for "no reason".

      10:05 PM - 17 Nov 2019
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      • SERVIENS REGIS damageboy
      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Nov 2019
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          Replying to @marcan42 @SteakandChickn and

          And they probably had a few people further down who saw the problems with this approach, and whose concerns were either ignored or stifled from the start due to corporate culture.

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        3. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 17 Nov 2019
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          Replying to @marcan42 @SteakandChickn and

          "defense in depth" is a common term in security, and it's what Intel didn't do (and should've). You don't build a brittle system that will crash at the first mistake, you add redundant security in case something goes wrong.

          0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        4. End of conversation

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