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marcan42's profile
Hector Martin
Hector Martin
Hector Martin
@marcan42

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Hector Martin

@marcan42

If it ain't broke, I'll fix it! I'm porting Linux to Apple Silicon Macs at @AsahiLinux. http://patreon.com/marcan  | http://github.com/sponsors/marcan 

Tokyo, Japan
marcan.st
Joined May 2009

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    1. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 19 Jan 2019
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      Replying to @marcan42 @B1tSmurf

      The lack of fsck being the first problem, of course. The rule with ZFS is that when something goes wrong, you restore from backup. I *do* have backups, but it don't trust a FS with that mentality.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Glenn D‏ @B1tSmurf 19 Jan 2019
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      Replying to @marcan42

      I've been running ZFS in critical production for over 6 years and I haven't seen a single file system failure even when disks decided to die.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Glenn D‏ @B1tSmurf 19 Jan 2019
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      Replying to @B1tSmurf @marcan42

      On top of that, ZFS don't need fsck.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 19 Jan 2019
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      Replying to @B1tSmurf

      Disks dying is a normal failure mode. A hardware glitch corrupting RAID6 stripes during disk replacement necessitating a roll back to the old disk and thus a patchwork of old and new disk state isn't. ZFS works great until it doesn't and then you can't fix it.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 19 Jan 2019
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      Replying to @marcan42 @B1tSmurf

      "ZFS doesn't need fsck" is what they want you to think. Then something happens they don't plan for and you're screwed. Go look around for ZFS data loss stories, they exist.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Glenn D‏ @B1tSmurf 19 Jan 2019
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      Replying to @marcan42

      I'm fully aware of the data loss stories. Most of the losses stems from improperly configured storage pools.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 19 Jan 2019
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      Replying to @B1tSmurf

      "improperly configured" = "you did something we didn't expect or plan for". I'd rather have a filesystem that at least attempts to provide recovery tools for when you make a "mistake", thanks.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 19 Jan 2019
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      Replying to @marcan42 @B1tSmurf

      I'm fully aware I was playing with fire when I had that RAID fuckup during disk exchanges, and I'm very happy XFS had an fsck that could fix the issues and get me back up and running with ~no data loss. I guarantee ZFS does not magically handle that scenario, it'd need an fsck.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Glenn D‏ @B1tSmurf 19 Jan 2019
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      Replying to @marcan42

      I'm not claiming it's bulletproof but ZFS has proven over and over again to be resilient and rock solid. ZFS is fundamentally different to traditional file systems. Includes transaction rollback, even a debugger if you really need that.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Glenn D‏ @B1tSmurf 19 Jan 2019
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      Replying to @B1tSmurf @marcan42

      Apparently you know much more than the ZFS file system and storage engineers combined. Let's put it to rest and say we agree to disagree 🙂

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 19 Jan 2019
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      Replying to @B1tSmurf

      Yeah about that debugger (which ext4 and xfs also have, and those actually work and I've use them): < puck> marcan: turns out zdb can't actually edit anything or even work with broken zfs structures well

      6:33 PM - 19 Jan 2019
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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        2. Glenn D‏ @B1tSmurf 19 Jan 2019
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          Replying to @marcan42

          I've stopped counting how many times ext4 decided to corrupt itself, especially in customer nas appliances and I've had to battle with fsck and the debugger failing.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 19 Jan 2019
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          Replying to @B1tSmurf

          I've never had ext4 corrupt itself unprovoked *shrug*. Remember I'm not talking about "typical" failure cases here. I'm talking about times when SHTF in weird ways. ZFS does not give you useful tools to handle those. It's a black box, it works until it doesn't.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation

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