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marcan42's profile
Hector Martin
Hector Martin
Hector Martin
@marcan42

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Hector Martin

@marcan42

If it ain't broke, I'll fix it! I'm porting Linux to Apple Silicon Macs at @AsahiLinux. http://patreon.com/marcan  | http://github.com/sponsors/marcan 

Tokyo, Japan
marcan.st
Joined May 2009

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    1. Chandler Carruth‏ @chandlerc1024 2 Nov 2018
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      Chandler Carruth Retweeted César

      This is awesome research, but don't panic. ;] SMT isn't evil here... Fundamentally, secret-dependent control flow has been specifically discouraged and avoided in "constant-time" crypto code for a while now. Upgrade your crypto libraries! The crypto community is really on this.https://twitter.com/CesarPereidaG/status/1058296725419507712 …

      Chandler Carruth added,

      César @CesarPereidaG
      CVE-2018-5407: new side-channel vulnerability on SMT/Hyper-Threading architectures. Check some info about our new #sidechannel non-cache dependent. Paper coming soon. #portsmash #uarch #attack #infosec https://seclists.org/oss-sec/2018/q4/123 …
      Show this thread
      4 replies 35 retweets 71 likes
    2. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 3 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @chandlerc1024

      SMT is definitely evil here. Constant time may work for crypto, but it does not work for computing in general. Sure, crypto keys are high value and deserve extra protection... but that just means SMT will leak everything except your crypto keys.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    3. Chandler Carruth‏ @chandlerc1024 3 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @marcan42

      If that is your concern, this is still just a drop in the bucket IMO. There are many, many side channels. But leaking data through side channels from one process to another is far from easy (even on a shared phys core, regardless of channel)... Not much worth it beyond key data.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Chandler Carruth‏ @chandlerc1024 3 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @chandlerc1024 @marcan42

      Also, unless you're using VMs, truly malicious code on your physical core is .... a much bigger problem. And if you *are* using VMs, all the major cloud vendors have already isolated your core. All the non cloud VM stacks are on it too. L1TF makes this risk look tiny.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 3 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @chandlerc1024

      Containers come to mind. Also, plenty of on-premise VM stuff isn't doing proper core isolation. And in general any multiuser systems. We rely on untrusted code not escaping OS privilege boundaries all the time.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    6. Chandler Carruth‏ @chandlerc1024 3 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @marcan42

      Yes, but in all of those cases is *this* even close to the most serious risk considering it is limited to info leak, high difficulty, low bandwidth, inability to target arbitrary data, etc....? Outside of very specific areas (crypto, maybe a few others) this shouldn't be a prio.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 3 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @chandlerc1024

      The problem with that mindset is you think you're ~safe until your not and someone comes up with a high impact exploit for your platform. The stars align and you're truly screwed.

      8:12 PM - 3 Nov 2018
      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Billy O'Neal‏ @MalwareMinigun 3 Nov 2018
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          Replying to @marcan42 @chandlerc1024

          But that’s true about literally everything, not just SMT.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 3 Nov 2018
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          Replying to @MalwareMinigun @chandlerc1024

          Yes, but we usually try to mitigate known vulnerabilities instead of shrugging them off and saying "eh, nobody will find a way to exploit this".

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Chandler Carruth‏ @chandlerc1024 4 Nov 2018
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          Replying to @marcan42

          You cannot disable all attackable surfaces though just because they may be attacked. You have to make risk- and cost-based prioritizations. That's just reality. Disabling SMT, especially because of *this* vuln, seems like a bad priority. Minimal risk avoided at v. high cost.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Chandler Carruth‏ @chandlerc1024 4 Nov 2018
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          Replying to @chandlerc1024 @marcan42

          Anyways, we may just take very different views of either risk or cost here. Not sure this discussion is going to uncover much at this point.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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