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marcan42's profile
Hector Martin
Hector Martin
Hector Martin
@marcan42

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Hector Martin

@marcan42

If it ain't broke, I'll fix it! I'm porting Linux to Apple Silicon Macs at @AsahiLinux. http://patreon.com/marcan  | http://github.com/sponsors/marcan 

Tokyo, Japan
marcan.st
Joined May 2009

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    1. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 9 Oct 2018
      • Report Tweet
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      Replying to @danielcincu

      Not a small chip able to MITM 1000BASE-T. You aren't going to get more than 60mW from an LED.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    2. Daniel Cincunegui  🧢‏ @danielcincu 9 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @marcan42

      You don't get the power from the led, you draw power from its supply. It only needs to run the logic. You would get further intermitent power from the jack pins. Not backing the Bloomberg piece, just saying it's possible.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 9 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @danielcincu

      I'm talking about the LED supply. 20mA at 3V is the max any indicator LED will be powered at (a lot less these days). LEDs are current limited, so you don't get to draw more. That's 60mW. So no, not possible. Not going to draw any significant power off of the Ethernet pins either

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 9 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @marcan42 @danielcincu

      *Maybe* if the LEDs are low side switched *and* the current limiting resistor is on the low side and you wire up yourself between anode and the connector shield you could steal more power, but that's a lot of maybes and assumptions about the board design.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Daniel Cincunegui  🧢‏ @danielcincu 9 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @marcan42

      Also, multiple jack parts have access to more led pins, so more power.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 9 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @danielcincu

      16 LEDs are still not enough to run dual 1000BASE-T PHYs + a CPU capable of using them.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Daniel Cincunegui  🧢‏ @danielcincu 9 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @marcan42

      Even in short bursts? Let's say you just want to MITM DNS requests. You don't need to run the jack full time. 0.01% of the time is plenty.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 9 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @danielcincu

      How do you know when there's a DNS request happening without actually running the PHY?

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 9 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @marcan42 @danielcincu

      Look, I'm sure at some point you'll come up with a scenario that is Just About Plausible, but this is just dumb engineering-wise.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Daniel Cincunegui  🧢‏ @danielcincu 9 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @marcan42

      I agree. But do intelligence agencies only make smart engineering decisions? I think the killer here is the supply chain traceability. The engineering... who knows? I follow you partly because of all the dumb engineering you report on!

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 9 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @danielcincu

      The issue is the dissonance between the engineering required to jam stuff into an Ethernet jack and the dumb idea of depending on LEDs for power. I mean for dumb engineering I already had my ATtiny SOIC8 implant theory ;)

      12:50 PM - 9 Oct 2018
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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        1. Daniel Cincunegui  🧢‏ @danielcincu 9 Oct 2018
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          Replying to @marcan42

          But isn't the engineering difficult fundamentally because of the power problem? In a two jack module there is plenty of space.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        2. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 9 Oct 2018
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          Replying to @danielcincu

          It's still very nontrivial. Look at the NSA version for an example, and that was USB which is a simpler protocol. Stuffing this much stuff into an Ethernet jack needs pretty top notch integration skills.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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